WEBVTT 00:00:15.626 --> 00:00:16.648 Welcome to the Concealed Carry 00:00:16.648 --> 00:00:20.763 Podcast, part of the ConcealedCarry.com network, brought to you by HK. 00:00:21.657 --> 00:00:27.358 Today is Friday, October 30th, 2026, as of the recording of this live episode. 00:00:28.159 --> 00:00:32.198 And I am your host, Riley Bowman, joined today by, you know what, 00:00:32.198 --> 00:00:37.522 we're going to promote you to co-host, because you're already on screen, Zach. 00:00:38.103 --> 00:00:38.445 Hello. 00:00:38.800 --> 00:00:41.360 Welcome, Zach Cox, our special guest and co-host today. 00:00:42.521 --> 00:00:43.147 How are y'all? 00:00:45.191 --> 00:00:50.578 Glad to have you we're going to do a quick little sponsor message and welcome 00:00:50.578 --> 00:00:53.248 to everybody just tuning in and then we'll do an 00:00:53.748 --> 00:01:00.538 introduction of our new co-host we fired Jacob he's out so it's just the Riley and Zach show now 00:01:01.768 --> 00:01:06.581 All right, so today's episode is sponsored and brought to you by HK. 00:01:07.434 --> 00:01:12.114 These are the guys we trust with the equipment that myself, Jacob, 00:01:12.114 --> 00:01:14.928 our whole team here carries every single day. 00:01:15.584 --> 00:01:20.534 And so we hope that you will support our sponsors like HK by supporting them 00:01:20.534 --> 00:01:24.584 and maybe considering your next purchase to be an HK pistol, 00:01:24.584 --> 00:01:26.864 like the new A1 series guns. 00:01:26.864 --> 00:01:30.394 They have the B models now, which is a push-button mag release, 00:01:30.394 --> 00:01:33.196 which is awesome for Americans that love buttons. 00:01:33.672 --> 00:01:36.794 And, of course, people, you know, like to paddle. You know, HK, 00:01:36.794 --> 00:01:40.474 I don't think, will ever stop making paddle guns. But, man, I was excited to 00:01:40.474 --> 00:01:45.149 get my hands on the new B models, and they're awesome. 00:01:45.764 --> 00:01:50.095 Check them out, hk-usa.com. You can learn more about everything HK's got lined up. 00:01:50.658 --> 00:01:57.205 And you can usually find them at your local dealer around the country, hk-usa.com. 00:01:57.495 --> 00:02:00.254 Today's episode also sponsored by Guardian Nation. 00:02:00.674 --> 00:02:05.144 Alright, Guardian Nation is our, that is our premier membership that you want 00:02:05.144 --> 00:02:08.670 to be a part of to get access to all kinds of goodies. 00:02:09.117 --> 00:02:13.444 One of the biggest benefits is having full and complete access to Guardian University, 00:02:13.444 --> 00:02:18.265 which is our online library of video training and other content. 00:02:18.863 --> 00:02:23.514 All of our video courses we've filmed over the last 10 years live in Guardian 00:02:23.514 --> 00:02:26.874 University, plus a bunch of other members only content. 00:02:27.454 --> 00:02:31.724 Content also discounts off of products like CCW safe and other things other 00:02:31.724 --> 00:02:33.138 partners of ours in the industry 00:02:33.886 --> 00:02:38.104 And the quarterly gearbox that we will be shipping out the next one here in 00:02:38.104 --> 00:02:40.620 like a month and a half or two months thereabouts 00:02:41.270 --> 00:02:45.694 we just shipped out one fairly recently people are pretty excited so far about 00:02:46.114 --> 00:02:50.512 we sent in the last box but check it out consider guardian nation membership today go to 00:02:51.540 --> 00:02:54.608 Well, you could go to GuardianNation.com to learn more, but I'll tell you what, 00:02:54.608 --> 00:02:58.899 I'll give you podcast listeners a special link for a 14-day free trial. 00:02:59.665 --> 00:03:03.049 ConcealedCarry.com forward slash 14-day, 1-4-D-A-Y. 00:03:04.030 --> 00:03:05.813 There's a sponsor today. How'd I do, Zach? 00:03:06.422 --> 00:03:09.408 Good. I think we need to start throwing up some gang signs for H and K, 00:03:09.928 --> 00:03:15.428 like sign language, use like an H and K, so just start throwing up some gang signs. 00:03:15.428 --> 00:03:16.348 I like it. Yeah. 00:03:16.348 --> 00:03:17.904 I like it. It's H and K, baby. 00:03:19.148 --> 00:03:20.534 All right, all right, all right. 00:03:21.368 --> 00:03:21.908 Very good. 00:03:22.248 --> 00:03:25.098 Hey, you're doing all right so far in the co-host seat there. 00:03:25.098 --> 00:03:28.371 So let's get you having me on. 00:03:29.195 --> 00:03:32.868 Yeah, man. We're excited to have you on now for folks that don't know. 00:03:33.648 --> 00:03:39.698 Zach was one of our amazing instructors at the Guardian Conference. 00:03:39.698 --> 00:03:41.348 You were there last year, too, in fact. 00:03:42.408 --> 00:03:48.851 So, folks, you really missed out if you weren't at the 2025 or 2026 Guardian conferences. 00:03:49.877 --> 00:03:53.792 And you could have taken some really awesome shotgun classes from Zach or some 00:03:53.792 --> 00:03:56.346 really awesome pistol classes, too. 00:03:56.770 --> 00:03:59.262 He did an awesome job. People loved his classes. 00:03:59.817 --> 00:04:03.283 Man, you saw some of your reviews. People were just raving about you, dude. 00:04:03.904 --> 00:04:09.332 And just overall having a great time learning from you. So, yeah, 00:04:10.243 --> 00:04:15.491 to that point, guys, tickets are available for the 2027 Guardian Conference. 00:04:15.949 --> 00:04:17.812 And I think we'd like to have Zach back. 00:04:17.812 --> 00:04:22.288 Oh, I appreciate that. We love to see everybody there, too. 00:04:23.200 --> 00:04:28.502 Yeah, absolutely. And that's another benefit of Guardian Nation membership is 00:04:28.502 --> 00:04:34.258 Guardian Nation members get $150 off the ticket price for Guardian Conference. 00:04:34.856 --> 00:04:39.901 So join Guardian Nation. Hurry up. Buy your ticket for Guardian Conference. 00:04:40.214 --> 00:04:43.651 Come to Oklahoma with us next year, September 2027. 00:04:44.196 --> 00:04:48.662 And take three days of awesome training from the likes of Zach Cox and our other 00:04:48.662 --> 00:04:52.449 amazing instructors. And you. We had Cecil Birch on the podcast. Oh, thank you. 00:04:53.047 --> 00:04:55.162 We had Cecil Birch on the podcast last week. 00:04:55.882 --> 00:05:02.332 Oh, cool. All Cecil. Yeah, right? So, you know, you guys are getting a little 00:05:02.332 --> 00:05:08.112 bit of a taste of who these guys are on the podcast now, and they'll be at the conference next year. 00:05:08.112 --> 00:05:12.644 So, anyway, Zach, let's get the Zach Cox story. 00:05:13.637 --> 00:05:14.154 Okay. 00:05:14.769 --> 00:05:16.046 Let's start from the beginning. 00:05:16.615 --> 00:05:17.207 Lordy. 00:05:19.939 --> 00:05:25.749 So, dude, you don't have to be like, I was born on date, sudden, sudden, sudden. 00:05:25.749 --> 00:05:27.273 Yeah, I was about to. I was about to go. No, no. 00:05:27.581 --> 00:05:31.519 But, dude, looking back over your life, 00:05:33.059 --> 00:05:38.627 where would you describe things beginning for you that's kind of relevant to 00:05:39.231 --> 00:05:42.889 personal defense, concealed carry, shooting, whatever? 00:05:42.889 --> 00:05:45.675 Like what would be kind of the first place you would start that, 00:05:46.325 --> 00:05:50.859 you know, early and maybe impressionable moments in your early life that kind 00:05:50.859 --> 00:05:55.107 of got you started on this path or what or whatever. Tell people a little bit about yourself. 00:05:55.333 --> 00:06:00.383 That's a heavy and great question. So I grew up in a pastor's home. 00:06:00.899 --> 00:06:03.617 My dad was pastor of megachurches all growing up. And, 00:06:06.479 --> 00:06:13.309 we had a big sportsman's group, a men's sportsman's group within the church 00:06:13.309 --> 00:06:20.718 that was very heavily on mentorship and learning and growing, 00:06:21.579 --> 00:06:22.859 but also firearms. 00:06:22.859 --> 00:06:26.189 And it was hunting. It was duck hunting. It was skeet shooting. 00:06:26.189 --> 00:06:27.498 It was all kinds of different things. 00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:36.149 Um and so i grew up in that realm uh and loved it um also saw things that excuse 00:06:36.149 --> 00:06:41.314 my language made my butt pucker a little bit um which got me started thinking a little more um, 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:47.889 i ended up uh working out an outdoor wilderness camp i was a whitewater rafting 00:06:47.889 --> 00:06:52.129 guide and i did a bunch of rock climbing and stuff like that but i was also 00:06:52.129 --> 00:06:56.899 a skeet uh skeet shooting instructor, which I had competed when I was younger, 00:06:57.659 --> 00:06:59.425 just fun stuff, 00:07:01.027 --> 00:07:03.535 and really found a passion for it. 00:07:04.980 --> 00:07:09.415 I guess got okay at it, but really started... 00:07:10.838 --> 00:07:13.607 I guess I say all that to say that I grew up, 00:07:15.662 --> 00:07:23.046 shooting guns and in the firearms world, which a lot of us can say. Yep. But that doesn't. 00:07:25.200 --> 00:07:31.980 Let me just be clear here. I had a life change in 2018, 2019, 00:07:33.020 --> 00:07:37.727 got divorced, and it was the toughest thing that I've ever gone through in my life. 00:07:38.331 --> 00:07:41.314 It was, it rocked my soul, rocked my world. 00:07:41.814 --> 00:07:48.480 And I had to, uh, redefine myself. I had to figure out exactly what God had 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:54.403 in store for me, what he had planned for me and what he wanted for me, not what I wanted. 00:07:55.007 --> 00:08:01.259 Um, so I dove into the firearms world. I randomly reached out to Apache solutions, 00:08:01.654 --> 00:08:04.777 which is hilarious now, but we'll get to that. 00:08:05.201 --> 00:08:09.400 Um, I reached out to Tim Kelly and was just like, hey, man. 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:17.700 I want to come be a firearms instructor and I want to do this. 00:08:17.700 --> 00:08:19.678 And he was just like, we'll come out for a private session. 00:08:20.340 --> 00:08:22.000 So it was him and Frank Horvath. 00:08:22.876 --> 00:08:30.575 Um, and I was very humbled, very quick, um, and asked them the story one day. 00:08:30.575 --> 00:08:34.080 They'd love to tell you they made bets that I would never come back. 00:08:34.747 --> 00:08:41.400 Um, and seriously, I was tempted not to, uh, because I was humbled. 00:08:41.603 --> 00:08:44.486 Um, my ego got in the way if I'm being honest. 00:08:45.130 --> 00:08:52.035 Um, and I came back with a vengeance. I came back once, twice, 00:08:52.035 --> 00:08:59.132 three times a week and trained private sessions with Tim Kelly and also Frank. 00:09:00.185 --> 00:09:05.209 And I learned as much as I possibly could. That's kind of my pedigree now. 00:09:05.627 --> 00:09:08.489 So I'm kind of getting into why and where. 00:09:10.057 --> 00:09:13.139 So I grew up with Apache, which was awesome. 00:09:13.767 --> 00:09:18.975 Um i would not be where i am today and who the man i am today and the instructor 00:09:18.975 --> 00:09:23.083 i am today without uh tim kelly and frank horvath, 00:09:23.843 --> 00:09:29.535 um they taught me more than i could ever imagine um but also i have a phenomenal 00:09:29.535 --> 00:09:34.385 relationship with my with my parents with my father and he's a phenomenal teacher and so, 00:09:35.265 --> 00:09:39.885 teaching has been a part of my life i've done some youth pastoring i've done 00:09:39.885 --> 00:09:41.165 some Bible studies, stuff like that. 00:09:41.165 --> 00:09:45.176 So like I've learned how to teach, but I didn't really know much. 00:09:45.512 --> 00:09:51.944 And then I dove into, um, a lot of the firearms instructor world. 00:09:52.536 --> 00:09:58.445 And so I literally, after my divorce, I was trying to redefine myself. 00:09:58.445 --> 00:10:05.405 And so I sold, I sold two of my houses and sold a business and got rid of everything in life. 00:10:05.405 --> 00:10:10.165 I owned a landscaping business for about 13 years and decided that I'm going 00:10:10.165 --> 00:10:14.502 to spend all that money on classes, training, and instruction. 00:10:15.501 --> 00:10:22.131 And I did it. And if you're ever curious, please ask later on or look me up 00:10:22.131 --> 00:10:25.637 and or ask anybody. But that knows me. 00:10:26.710 --> 00:10:30.218 I went through the ringer and really enjoyed it. 00:10:32.022 --> 00:10:40.282 Started teaching classes more. And Frank Horvath was my AI and my co-instructor, I guess. 00:10:40.925 --> 00:10:46.851 And at Apache, it's one of those things that like, it's so unique working with 00:10:46.851 --> 00:10:51.861 a group. You, you work with a team to where at the end of it, 00:10:51.861 --> 00:10:55.415 you end up saying, okay, let's debrief. 00:10:55.600 --> 00:11:03.304 And debriefing is so important to where they tore me apart in the best way possible. 00:11:04.101 --> 00:11:07.605 They were very encouraging and they were like, Hey, you did this great, 00:11:07.861 --> 00:11:09.278 but you need to work on this. 00:11:10.130 --> 00:11:14.240 So I know this is kind of a long story short, but like. 00:11:16.441 --> 00:11:21.831 There's a lot in there. Um, but I learned and grew and had the crap beat out 00:11:21.831 --> 00:11:23.615 of me still am to this day. 00:11:23.981 --> 00:11:33.589 Um, but I'm a, I've learned to be a professional student and to focus on learning and growing always. 00:11:34.093 --> 00:11:39.241 Um, Yeah, we all mess up. I mess up. I probably messed up today at some way, 00:11:39.241 --> 00:11:43.481 shape or form. But like, it's not going to define me. It's going to teach me 00:11:43.481 --> 00:11:46.980 and let me grow and let me become a better man, better instructor. 00:11:48.257 --> 00:11:49.162 So where I'm at now? 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:57.352 I'm still learning, but I've gone through a lot in life and learned a lot, 00:11:57.352 --> 00:12:02.120 and I'm really excited to help people, help empower people, 00:12:04.070 --> 00:12:06.375 and just help. 00:12:07.367 --> 00:12:10.802 I guess that's the shortest version I can give you. 00:12:12.969 --> 00:12:17.962 Hey you know i appreciate you uh even describing a lot of what you shared as 00:12:17.962 --> 00:12:24.858 sort of like your pedigree uh because to me that that means that means a lot 00:12:26.640 --> 00:12:30.622 Uh and i think more people would do well to particularly as they're looking 00:12:30.622 --> 00:12:36.142 for training looking for you know academies schools instructors whatever they 00:12:36.142 --> 00:12:38.342 want to train with or under 00:12:39.566 --> 00:12:44.182 uh you should look at those people's pedigrees sure like that that's you know 00:12:44.182 --> 00:12:47.612 people talk about that a lot more on the martial arts side you're you know like 00:12:47.612 --> 00:12:50.432 and they're very proud of it for obvious reasons like well you know i trained 00:12:50.432 --> 00:12:54.021 under so it's you know this master this you know whatever you know like 00:12:54.903 --> 00:12:58.512 all these different dudes and that means something in the martial arts world 00:12:58.512 --> 00:13:03.642 and it should also mean something in kind of the firearms and personal defense space too 00:13:04.042 --> 00:13:07.952 and that's how i evaluate a lot of instructors that's how i evaluate people 00:13:07.952 --> 00:13:13.067 we even bring to the guardian conference as our as our instructors for that event is like 00:13:13.706 --> 00:13:17.392 you know i we've invited plenty of you know guys over the years that we didn't 00:13:17.392 --> 00:13:22.320 necessarily even know all that well but it's like but we know we know them because 00:13:22.866 --> 00:13:26.822 we know who they've trained with we know who they study under we know we've 00:13:26.822 --> 00:13:30.422 spoken to other are people in the industry that are like, oh yeah, I know that guy. 00:13:30.422 --> 00:13:35.149 Right. And, and know that he's, he's solid, you know? And so like that goes a long way. 00:13:35.884 --> 00:13:42.042 In other words, I place above certificates, you know, I got such and such instructor 00:13:42.042 --> 00:13:43.158 certificate or whatever. 00:13:45.090 --> 00:13:49.630 You got those things because like you got to have them for, you got to check the boxes. 00:13:49.630 --> 00:13:52.570 Maybe your insurance requires you to have that, whatever it is. 00:13:52.570 --> 00:13:58.380 But what matters way more is the man behind the man or really the men or women 00:13:58.380 --> 00:14:03.730 behind the man or woman, you know, that, that has kind of guided them to this place. 00:14:03.730 --> 00:14:06.780 And that's part of what I wanted to get from you today. And you, 00:14:06.780 --> 00:14:08.470 you launched right into that. 00:14:08.950 --> 00:14:16.454 I do have one, actually maybe two things to say. Um, going back to it um. 00:14:18.638 --> 00:14:24.596 I have found love again uh so marcia i ended up finding marcia and she taught 00:14:24.596 --> 00:14:30.683 me how to love again and so i'm remarried now and she is also a firearms instructor and she is, 00:14:31.397 --> 00:14:39.046 awesome and she she saved my soul man uh her and god saved my soul um but i 00:14:39.046 --> 00:14:41.381 wanted to come back to you said something about mastery, 00:14:42.385 --> 00:14:48.474 um me and one of my great friends i've been friends with for i don't know 25 years um, 00:14:49.641 --> 00:14:55.371 we've always been on a journey of mastering our minds um which are, 00:14:56.352 --> 00:15:00.866 i'm sure we could have discussions and arguments and whatever whatever but i 00:15:00.866 --> 00:15:03.614 think our mind is one of the greatest enemies, 00:15:04.235 --> 00:15:10.336 that we could ever face um absolutely uh because i'm i'm very add and adhd but 00:15:10.336 --> 00:15:11.758 i'm also very hard on myself, 00:15:12.350 --> 00:15:17.106 and i'm my own worst critic if somebody's a critic to me I guarantee I'm going 00:15:17.106 --> 00:15:22.846 to be 10 times more and because I strive to be better and all this stuff I've been writing, 00:15:23.653 --> 00:15:29.875 I've been writing a book uh I don't it'll never come out because let me ask you a question, 00:15:31.558 --> 00:15:37.836 mastery have you heard that mastery okay once you reach 10,000 hours you become 00:15:37.836 --> 00:15:39.917 a master at something right you've heard that right. 00:15:40.642 --> 00:15:41.298 Yeah yeah yeah 00:15:41.786 --> 00:15:45.948 So here's the title and anybody can steal it, whatever. Please don't. 00:15:48.491 --> 00:15:53.437 Here's my title. Mastery is an endless road worth taking. 00:15:56.472 --> 00:16:00.822 And it speaks for itself it's one of those that like i'll never be a master 00:16:00.822 --> 00:16:08.000 at this um and our journey is a part of the story and it's um, 00:16:09.719 --> 00:16:16.882 it's a part of the beauty of it is is our journey um whether we succeed or fail 00:16:16.882 --> 00:16:23.250 or crash or burn or rise whatever uh it's an endless road that's worth taking, 00:16:24.986 --> 00:16:26.745 i don't know 100. 00:16:27.942 --> 00:16:32.182 Dude you're actually you're speaking very much uh 00:16:32.982 --> 00:16:39.142 similar words to what cecil just shared last week on the podcast old cecil where we basically 00:16:39.762 --> 00:16:42.862 we basically talked about you know how it's not so much about the destination 00:16:42.862 --> 00:16:46.352 as it is the journey true and that's kind of what i'm hearing from you is that 00:16:46.352 --> 00:16:49.714 and i agree with you 100% that that mastery is not about 00:16:50.294 --> 00:16:55.943 arriving at a place and being like i am a master i have achieved i have you know like 00:16:56.273 --> 00:17:01.102 It's not about i've become a grand master in us or this or that like right. 00:17:01.672 --> 00:17:05.902 It's a journey right i have arrived you know like no it's not about that at 00:17:05.902 --> 00:17:12.072 all like mastery is about the journey it is about the process and you know that 00:17:12.072 --> 00:17:13.322 that title you just game. 00:17:13.322 --> 00:17:17.990 I mean, basically suggests like that debt journey, that road never ends. 00:17:18.158 --> 00:17:18.402 Yeah. 00:17:19.888 --> 00:17:20.547 Which is how we should view it. 00:17:20.957 --> 00:17:23.497 I think that a true master, yeah. I mean, you said the words, 00:17:23.877 --> 00:17:28.167 you know, kind of an eternal student, you know, that you're all about that. 00:17:28.167 --> 00:17:34.377 And I think folks paying attention, you probably have heard similar threads 00:17:34.377 --> 00:17:40.557 of thought or words over the years from us and from guests on our podcast about 00:17:40.557 --> 00:17:43.042 this kind of thing. that, 00:17:45.109 --> 00:17:51.467 Oh, hey, you worried about losing your thoughts or your train of thought, 00:17:51.467 --> 00:17:55.627 Zach, on the podcast, and here I just lost mine, but the point is people have 00:17:55.627 --> 00:17:57.909 heard similar things from other people. 00:17:58.258 --> 00:18:00.707 Oh, that's what I was going to say is that, you know, this is what you call 00:18:00.707 --> 00:18:04.956 clues. When you hear from a lot of different professionals in particular, 00:18:05.478 --> 00:18:09.617 guys that I look up to and trust that I, that have been a part of the, 00:18:09.617 --> 00:18:15.138 this podcast, part of the concealed carry.com, you know, family over the years, so to speak, 00:18:17.017 --> 00:18:19.067 they're, they're all eternal students. 00:18:19.067 --> 00:18:22.499 Like quality people never stop learning. 00:18:23.297 --> 00:18:27.747 And so, you know, I talked about how looking at training and, 00:18:27.747 --> 00:18:33.137 and instructors and schools that you might consider doing training with that 00:18:33.137 --> 00:18:36.747 one of the evaluation factors for me is, well, what's their pedigree? 00:18:36.747 --> 00:18:42.357 But the other one is, and I've asked instructors this, it's been quite a few 00:18:42.357 --> 00:18:46.197 years ago, but I remember considering taking a class and I straight up asked 00:18:46.197 --> 00:18:47.859 the instructor I was considering, 00:18:48.579 --> 00:18:52.074 like, hey, when's the last time you took a class or training for yourself? 00:18:53.525 --> 00:18:56.270 And it was easy answer. They're like, oh, I just took, you know, 00:18:56.270 --> 00:19:00.665 so-and-so's class, you know, three months ago or whatever. And it's like, cool. 00:19:01.176 --> 00:19:04.560 You know, because what that tells me is that they're still learning. 00:19:04.560 --> 00:19:06.876 They're still studying. They're still mastering their craft. 00:19:07.469 --> 00:19:10.638 Instructors that I would steer people away from are the ones that are like, 00:19:11.021 --> 00:19:14.710 ah, what are you talking about? I'm an instructor. I don't take classes. I teach classes. 00:19:14.710 --> 00:19:16.043 I've learned from everyone. 00:19:16.966 --> 00:19:21.320 Yeah. Yeah. Like, cause that's the, that's the attitude that suggests I have 00:19:21.320 --> 00:19:25.170 arrived and you know, there's nothing more I have to learn. I am a master. 00:19:25.630 --> 00:19:32.818 I'm going to be real vulnerable here. So I, I, how do I word this? 00:19:33.085 --> 00:19:38.380 I know a good bit about the shotgun, which I figured you'd lead into eventually, 00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:43.050 or we'll talk about it, but I was humbled this weekend or this past weekend 00:19:43.050 --> 00:19:47.864 teaching at the thunder stick something out in vegas uh outside of vegas, 00:19:48.381 --> 00:19:54.296 and some dude had a tavor 12-gauge shotgun a bullpup to board, 00:19:55.086 --> 00:20:01.175 and i i don't recommend those and we could talk about that later but, 00:20:02.510 --> 00:20:07.300 um i didn't know how to do some of the manipulations and i looked at him square 00:20:07.650 --> 00:20:13.590 in the face and i was just like ah i don't know i don't know and i was just 00:20:13.590 --> 00:20:15.960 like how would you do it? How would you do it? 00:20:16.605 --> 00:20:20.035 And he showed me, and I was like, what's another way you would do it? 00:20:20.349 --> 00:20:22.745 And he showed me three different ways. And I was just like, okay, 00:20:23.093 --> 00:20:24.301 here's where the coaching came in. 00:20:24.626 --> 00:20:27.490 And, and I guess my pedigree started coming in and I was like, 00:20:27.490 --> 00:20:30.700 I would do this, but add this. 00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:34.050 And I, I tweaked a little things, but like I told him, I said, 00:20:34.050 --> 00:20:40.490 I said, dude, I have no idea how to run a Devor bullpup shotgun because they're 00:20:40.490 --> 00:20:42.215 not on my radar and they never will be. 00:20:43.795 --> 00:20:49.739 But they kind of are now because I had a student come to a class and I need 00:20:49.739 --> 00:20:56.531 to be prepared and willing to teach or know how to help him. 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.699 And we helped each other and we created a great friendship because of it. 00:21:01.539 --> 00:21:03.549 And he was actually very thankful that I was. 00:21:05.743 --> 00:21:09.526 I won't say humble enough, but humble enough to put my ego aside and say, 00:21:09.526 --> 00:21:11.472 hey, I have no idea, dude. 00:21:12.987 --> 00:21:17.742 And it was really cool. And that's what I mean by being a professional student. 00:21:18.328 --> 00:21:23.000 And I tell people that in classes, like, if I don't know, I'll find out. 00:21:23.992 --> 00:21:27.696 Or if I can't find out, I'll put you in contact with somebody they can't tell 00:21:27.696 --> 00:21:30.970 you. So, yeah, it's just life. 00:21:31.220 --> 00:21:35.606 Right on. Good stuff, man. By the way, we got somebody on YouTube that started 00:21:35.606 --> 00:21:37.436 out by saying, what a cornball. 00:21:37.436 --> 00:21:41.796 I know. I saw him. And I was this close to being like, because we don't put 00:21:41.796 --> 00:21:46.006 up with crap on our channel. And so I was like, man, I'm going to boot them 00:21:46.006 --> 00:21:50.614 from this. And then he followed it up with, just kidding, brother. Yeah. 00:21:51.726 --> 00:21:57.356 I was like, good thing you were quick on the follow-up, Chris19-F9X on YouTube. 00:21:57.356 --> 00:22:00.546 Because I was like, I'm going to kick this guy from the broadcast. 00:22:01.226 --> 00:22:05.686 It's not going to hurt my feelings. I kind of am a cornball sometimes, but yeah. 00:22:06.955 --> 00:22:10.736 Anyway. Hey, man, we appreciate you sharing some of your story. 00:22:10.736 --> 00:22:12.506 We'll keep things moving along here. 00:22:12.546 --> 00:22:18.676 All right. So you mentioned, you know, you competed in skeet shooting and things 00:22:18.676 --> 00:22:22.436 like that and even taught a little bit in your earlier years with that. 00:22:22.506 --> 00:22:27.276 And as you were just talking just now that you obviously one of the things you've become known for 00:22:29.566 --> 00:22:33.266 is shotgun instruction. uh and you know probably 00:22:34.206 --> 00:22:38.376 most of that is i would say oriented more towards a defensive uh sort which 00:22:38.376 --> 00:22:40.018 i think is great it's very useful 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:43.666 but i also know you did like a class at the thunderstick summit just a week 00:22:43.666 --> 00:22:47.376 or so ago that was kind of more competition oriented i'm like oh that's kind 00:22:47.376 --> 00:22:50.366 of fun yeah so hopefully i think 00:22:50.366 --> 00:22:52.621 It went really well everybody said it did so. 00:22:53.178 --> 00:22:53.532 Yeah 00:22:54.537 --> 00:22:59.588 yeah so why why the shotgun like what why the passion about the shotgun 00:22:59.942 --> 00:23:06.599 Well so i've always loved shotguns but i my pedigree was pistols um, 00:23:07.570 --> 00:23:14.149 i did so much stuff with the pistols i trained with so many people so many instructors 00:23:14.149 --> 00:23:16.625 and so much stuff with the pistols and i love a pistol um, 00:23:17.704 --> 00:23:21.849 because if if like concealed carry and stuff like that which this concealed 00:23:21.849 --> 00:23:27.474 carry.com like like most of the time you're going to be having a pistol on you, 00:23:28.164 --> 00:23:31.717 throughout most of your life unless you're at home um, 00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:35.641 i started realizing that the shotgun, 00:23:36.582 --> 00:23:39.136 if i can say this delicately, 00:23:40.477 --> 00:23:45.986 um there's a reason why it was called the monstrous weapon the trench gun uh 00:23:46.340 --> 00:23:48.401 there's a reason why, uh, 00:23:49.695 --> 00:23:54.397 a certain country tried to make it a weapon of mass destruction. 00:23:54.885 --> 00:24:01.979 Um, and they said, if anybody they catch with, uh, a shotgun or shells or even 00:24:01.979 --> 00:24:06.588 a side saddle or whatever, but cuffs, um, they'll execute them on the spot. 00:24:07.412 --> 00:24:12.851 Um, is because it's one of the most effective, close quarter, 00:24:13.542 --> 00:24:18.208 devastating weapons that you could ever defend yourself with. 00:24:20.472 --> 00:24:21.645 I mean, sure, if I... 00:24:22.834 --> 00:24:26.932 I don't know if i should say this part but i'm gonna say it if i could have 00:24:26.932 --> 00:24:35.622 a bazooka to defend myself with or claymores or whatever i would totally do it um i mean who wouldn't. 00:24:35.622 --> 00:24:36.708 Right um yeah 00:24:37.044 --> 00:24:40.612 If i could have a hundred guard dogs out here and just like i don't have to 00:24:40.612 --> 00:24:46.552 do anything okay great um i want the one of the best and i'm saying one of the 00:24:46.552 --> 00:24:49.008 best because i don't i don't like a lot of dogma, 00:24:49.722 --> 00:24:55.150 um there are certain dogmatic things i believe in sure but i don't teach dogma uh, 00:24:56.102 --> 00:25:02.922 it is one of the if not the most devastating most effective weapon that you 00:25:02.922 --> 00:25:08.802 can defend yourself with and stop a threat with um for home defense you can't 00:25:08.802 --> 00:25:10.881 carry a shotgun every day with you sure, 00:25:12.118 --> 00:25:20.807 I have a farm I have a cattle farm and so it's the best of all the worlds to have a rifle, bird gun, 00:25:21.863 --> 00:25:29.252 stopping power, everything I carry buckshot, birdshot slugs on my gun to scare 00:25:29.252 --> 00:25:33.984 away a hawk, I promise I do not shoot hawks I have a beautiful albino hawk on our farm, 00:25:35.197 --> 00:25:41.122 he knows me now and he thinks I can't hit the broadside of a barn because I 00:25:41.442 --> 00:25:42.912 shoot around him all the time. 00:25:45.124 --> 00:25:50.377 But the reason why I got into shotguns was because it's such a great tool, 00:25:51.358 --> 00:25:52.537 if that answers anything. 00:25:54.002 --> 00:25:57.912 It's such a great tool for home defense. But it's not the only tool. Yeah. 00:25:59.022 --> 00:25:59.131 Yeah. 00:26:00.798 --> 00:26:03.915 Yeah, I think there's a lot of people that definitely agree with you on that. 00:26:03.915 --> 00:26:08.775 I mean, that's, I think, one of the reasons why people talk about pretty regularly, 00:26:08.775 --> 00:26:12.265 you know, their choice for home defense being a shotgun. 00:26:12.265 --> 00:26:19.655 Sure. Because it is that sort of ubiquitous, iconic home defense weapon. 00:26:19.655 --> 00:26:26.005 I mean, even like classic, stereotypical, you know, like history, 00:26:26.005 --> 00:26:29.325 you know, sort of views of the past. 00:26:29.325 --> 00:26:34.585 Like you can imagine some old farmer or farmer's wife, you know, 00:26:34.585 --> 00:26:38.125 on the front step of their homestead, 00:26:39.125 --> 00:26:42.625 you know, with a break action shotgun or something, you know, 00:26:43.165 --> 00:26:44.415 cradled in their arm, you know. 00:26:44.415 --> 00:26:49.280 So it is a classic, classic weapon. 00:26:49.658 --> 00:26:55.205 And I think probably for a while there, amongst particularly some people, 00:26:55.205 --> 00:26:59.865 maybe kind of got the sort of, you know, antiquated view of like, 00:27:00.225 --> 00:27:04.211 you know, that's my grandpappy's, you know, firearm or whatever. 00:27:05.245 --> 00:27:10.485 But it absolutely still has a place in today's world. And, I mean, 00:27:10.485 --> 00:27:15.085 I think we're seeing some really exciting things in that regard. Sure. 00:27:15.105 --> 00:27:18.875 As far as, I mean, like things that there's whole events now that exist. 00:27:18.875 --> 00:27:19.998 Like Thunderstick Summit. 00:27:20.665 --> 00:27:22.785 Shotgun's becoming sexy again. 00:27:23.365 --> 00:27:27.885 Right, right. And we had enough people kind of asking about it that, 00:27:28.425 --> 00:27:33.054 you know, that's why we invited you to the Guardian Conference for your first time. 00:27:33.495 --> 00:27:36.995 You know, we wanted it. Well, and I think we had Eric Gelhouse the year prior 00:27:36.995 --> 00:27:39.607 teaching, but he couldn't make it, you know. And so it was like, 00:27:40.008 --> 00:27:42.285 you know, that next year. So we're like, hey, let's get Zach here, 00:27:42.285 --> 00:27:46.545 you know, because people were wanting to know about this stuff, you know. Yeah. 00:27:47.105 --> 00:27:55.275 And so what would you say are some of the misconceptions or things that people 00:27:55.275 --> 00:27:59.031 get wrong about the shotgun in like a defensive context? 00:27:59.873 --> 00:27:59.913 Yeah. 00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:09.582 Bird shot is for birds that's number one that's number one yep uh also uh, 00:28:10.725 --> 00:28:15.561 every shotgun is a snowflake um every one of them looks different, 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:21.915 patterns different and acts different and what i mean by patterning it's how 00:28:21.915 --> 00:28:26.215 the rounds come out of the barrel whether you have full choke modified, 00:28:26.215 --> 00:28:27.856 improved, blah, blah, blah. 00:28:29.565 --> 00:28:33.425 It all depends. Can you hear my dogs barking and the chickens? 00:28:33.425 --> 00:28:35.425 Oh, yeah. But, hey, man, you're on a farm. 00:28:35.425 --> 00:28:38.635 Sorry. Yeah, I am on a farm. So they're fussing at something. 00:28:38.635 --> 00:28:41.376 They probably see something. They're doing their job. 00:28:42.073 --> 00:28:43.123 Exactly. 00:28:43.251 --> 00:28:46.525 But I would say some of the most common misconceptions is... 00:28:49.604 --> 00:28:53.735 Shotguns are scatter guns and you just, you don't have to aim. 00:28:54.426 --> 00:29:00.486 Uh, that's wrong and false. The other one is they kick and they hurt a lot. 00:29:01.032 --> 00:29:05.124 That's also false. Uh, if you're taught how to control, 00:29:05.664 --> 00:29:11.207 uh, the shotgun with push pull, the godfather of all defensive shotgun, which is rob hot uh, 00:29:12.464 --> 00:29:17.865 and his son matt hot with simtac consulting um they they are, 00:29:18.411 --> 00:29:24.224 they're the best uh defensive shotgunners out there um and i've been mentored 00:29:24.224 --> 00:29:28.488 by them and great friends with them now and and literally you can shoot a shotgun uh, 00:29:29.284 --> 00:29:31.404 whether you're like my wife is, 00:29:32.424 --> 00:29:36.708 105 110 pounds and she's like five two, 00:29:37.544 --> 00:29:43.254 um she's very small very petite and she can rock a shotgun all day shooting 00:29:43.254 --> 00:29:47.834 buckshot slugs all that stuff and it never affect her the next day it never 00:29:47.834 --> 00:29:51.694 hurts uh because she knows how to push pull the gun um. 00:29:53.165 --> 00:29:58.414 Which if you want to learn more reach out um i'd love to tell you um we don't 00:29:58.414 --> 00:30:05.104 have the time here but i let basically you push and pull that's it so there 00:30:05.104 --> 00:30:08.147 there are some misconceptions about this but it um, 00:30:09.598 --> 00:30:16.350 So here's one more. Statistically, back in the past, and Greg Elifritz has kind 00:30:16.350 --> 00:30:20.610 of debunked this in different ways, but they kind of play hand in hand, 00:30:21.540 --> 00:30:24.610 which if you don't know who Greg Elifritz is, he's an amazing man, 00:30:24.610 --> 00:30:26.641 amazing instructor. He's incredible. 00:30:27.315 --> 00:30:29.642 One of the best instructors on the planet, in my opinion. 00:30:30.908 --> 00:30:34.300 Well, and if folks want to learn more, I think it's activeresponsetraining.net. 00:30:34.320 --> 00:30:35.111 It is. Yes. 00:30:35.337 --> 00:30:37.720 I think it's his site. So they should go check that out. 00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:43.458 Phenomenal articles. He puts out articles all the time and a wealth of knowledge. 00:30:44.817 --> 00:30:48.630 But Tom Gibbons says this and several other instructors, the average amount 00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:53.338 of rounds it takes to stop a threat with a pistol, nine millimeter, is seven to nine rounds. 00:30:54.256 --> 00:30:58.100 Average amount of rounds it takes to stop a threat with a rifle, 00:30:58.100 --> 00:31:00.775 five, five, six, two, two, three, is three to five. 00:31:01.222 --> 00:31:05.538 Average amount of rounds it takes to stop a threat with buckshot, 00:31:06.037 --> 00:31:09.863 with like federal flight control buckshot. One round. 00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:18.675 But think about it this way. There's nine, almost nine millimeter sized pellets in a buckshot. 00:31:19.151 --> 00:31:22.495