WEBVTT 00:00:15.649 --> 00:00:16.645 And welcome to the Concealed Carry 00:00:16.645 --> 00:00:20.154 Podcast, part of the ConcealedCarry.com network, brought to you by HK. 00:00:21.129 --> 00:00:27.277 Today is Friday, September 11th, 2026, as of the live recording of this episode. 00:00:28.426 --> 00:00:32.635 I am your host, Riley Bowman, joined today by co-host, Jacob Paulson. 00:00:32.797 --> 00:00:33.395 Yep, that's me. 00:00:33.395 --> 00:00:35.555 Yeah, he, yeah. I say your name. 00:00:35.955 --> 00:00:36.855 Sorry, my bad. 00:00:36.855 --> 00:00:37.315 Just kidding. 00:00:40.315 --> 00:00:45.955 Dude, it's been an interesting day. I've been kind of in this like solemn state 00:00:45.955 --> 00:00:53.451 of mind with it being the 25th anniversary of September 9-11. 00:00:53.834 --> 00:00:56.725 Yeah, I would take today as a holiday over Labor Day. 00:00:56.946 --> 00:00:57.439 Totally. 00:00:57.712 --> 00:01:04.515 Yeah, like it just kind of feels like in our current season of America that 00:01:04.835 --> 00:01:07.945 this would be a more appropriate holiday than some of the other holidays we have. 00:01:08.357 --> 00:01:11.575 But it's a work day, you know. And like in our business, our rule is if the 00:01:11.575 --> 00:01:14.818 post office is open, we're open basically. So we're working. 00:01:15.869 --> 00:01:24.905 Yeah. I had that very thought, in fact, as I was thinking about the fact that 00:01:24.905 --> 00:01:25.958 it's not a holiday today. 00:01:26.788 --> 00:01:31.635 I was like, why is it not a holiday? I really feel like it should be. 00:01:32.749 --> 00:01:35.415 And then I was thinking about, well, probably somebody thought about it. 00:01:35.415 --> 00:01:38.925 And then like, well, we have Labor Day just a few days before. 00:01:38.925 --> 00:01:43.255 And, you know, we don't have two federal holidays, like, within three or four 00:01:43.255 --> 00:01:45.776 days of each other or something, you know, to that effect. 00:01:46.008 --> 00:01:49.218 Yeah, I get it. And then I'm thinking, we should make the whole week a holiday. 00:01:50.655 --> 00:01:54.405 Well, a holiday is weird, too, because, I mean, I guess, you know, 00:01:54.405 --> 00:01:56.289 you have, like, Memorial Day and Veterans Day. 00:01:56.525 --> 00:02:00.345 But, I mean, it's, you know, you don't want to, it's not like we want to celebrate what happened. 00:02:00.548 --> 00:02:00.895 Right. 00:02:00.895 --> 00:02:04.914 But we do want to, like, have ample time to remember what happened. 00:02:06.481 --> 00:02:10.701 I agree so i've been uh but as i said i've just been kind of in this, 00:02:11.386 --> 00:02:15.362 sort of funk today just i mean i don't know if i'm the right word but just you 00:02:15.362 --> 00:02:18.472 know just kind of like reflective definitely reflective there yeah that's a 00:02:18.472 --> 00:02:21.539 good word i like that reflective for sure um, 00:02:22.986 --> 00:02:28.291 Yeah. And it's not just because of 9-11. It's because of what's happened since 9-11. 00:02:28.733 --> 00:02:33.483 It's because I think back, I think, to 25 years ago, and we had our nation's 00:02:33.483 --> 00:02:36.153 problems then too, for sure. Yeah, yeah. 00:02:36.593 --> 00:02:40.221 But then I look at what we're, 00:02:40.790 --> 00:02:45.453 worried about, where we're focusing our effort and our time as a nation, 00:02:45.453 --> 00:02:50.843 as a government, as a people, as a society, as Americans, and it's sometimes 00:02:50.843 --> 00:02:51.803 a little bit depressing. 00:02:51.803 --> 00:02:55.966 Like we just spent all this time the last couple of weeks focused on this Lindsay 00:02:56.181 --> 00:02:58.773 Clancy trial thing, you know. 00:02:58.773 --> 00:02:59.339 Yeah, I heard about that. 00:03:00.453 --> 00:03:01.945 And people, you know, 00:03:03.953 --> 00:03:07.982 we're not here to get into that, okay? But like it's just there's some, 00:03:08.470 --> 00:03:13.857 what I would say are really bad takes about that case and people's thoughts on it. 00:03:14.455 --> 00:03:22.293 And it's just like, why is this what we are worried about today instead of like 00:03:22.293 --> 00:03:26.123 the things that made America great and still could make us great? 00:03:27.203 --> 00:03:32.096 And we saw some terrible things on 9-11, 2001. And we saw some amazing, 00:03:32.433 --> 00:03:36.224 you know, things that came out of that as a country. 00:03:37.113 --> 00:03:38.313 And some bad things that came out of that. 00:03:38.313 --> 00:03:42.813 Really bad things. Yeah, no doubt about that. So anyway, today I was also thinking 00:03:42.813 --> 00:03:48.698 about how you and I visited the Flight 93 National Memorial in 2019. Yeah. 00:03:49.753 --> 00:03:54.993 And saw that firsthand where that took place. That was really humbling. 00:03:54.993 --> 00:03:57.103 You know, say what you want about the United States of America, 00:03:57.103 --> 00:03:58.826 but we make a pretty dang good memorial. 00:03:59.110 --> 00:03:59.643 Oh, yeah. 00:03:59.643 --> 00:04:05.269 I mean, whoever's on the memorial committee, you guys nail it every time. 00:04:05.507 --> 00:04:06.901 I mean, you're just really good. 00:04:07.348 --> 00:04:07.413 Yep. 00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:14.697 Yep. I've got a question for you here in a minute that I'm going to follow up on a little bit. 00:04:14.697 --> 00:04:18.967 But first, let's just mention some episode sponsors. And by the way, 00:04:19.487 --> 00:04:22.567 we're here today to talk about lessons from permanent renewal classes, 00:04:22.567 --> 00:04:24.627 concealed carry permanent renewal classes. Yes. 00:04:25.347 --> 00:04:29.969 Which is something that you've taught. I have not taught a single renewal class. 00:04:30.398 --> 00:04:33.695 I don't know if I will here in the great state of Colorado. 00:04:34.507 --> 00:04:39.297 Maybe. I don't know. But you've definitely taught a few. And we've talked about 00:04:39.297 --> 00:04:43.767 this, and some of the things that you've shared with me are not surprising to me at all. 00:04:44.388 --> 00:04:46.333 There's a few things that maybe are a little surprising. 00:04:47.093 --> 00:04:51.058 We're going to share some of those lessons learned from those renewal classes 00:04:51.377 --> 00:04:53.847 because we think they're helpful for fellow concealed carriers. 00:04:53.847 --> 00:04:58.057 You guys and folks watching and listening to the Concealed Carry podcast, 00:04:58.057 --> 00:04:59.771 we'll share those with you here in a little bit. 00:05:00.387 --> 00:05:03.015 But first, today's episode is sponsored and brought to you by HK. 00:05:03.973 --> 00:05:07.978 We're proud to be brand ambassadors for HK, Heckler, and Koch, 00:05:09.207 --> 00:05:14.590 and to carry their guns and rely upon their equipment to be life-saving equipment. 00:05:15.627 --> 00:05:19.387 So, you know, I mentioned, I think, in the last episode, I'm sort of back to, 00:05:19.867 --> 00:05:24.697 carrying the CC9 again a little bit and sort of getting re-familiarized with 00:05:24.697 --> 00:05:27.281 it after a good stint with the VP9K. 00:05:29.307 --> 00:05:33.121 I think you're still carrying the CC9 pretty much every day and still loving it. 00:05:33.748 --> 00:05:35.807 Yeah, I like the CC9. I think it... 00:05:37.711 --> 00:05:40.854 In that category, in that class of guns, I think it is the best. 00:05:41.144 --> 00:05:41.811 Yeah. 00:05:42.231 --> 00:05:43.511 It's just that simple for me. 00:05:43.611 --> 00:05:48.511 It's a great gun. Yeah. So, like I said, I got it on me, and I've done a little 00:05:48.511 --> 00:05:52.961 bit of work on mine. I've got a custom texture that I stippled on it myself 00:05:52.961 --> 00:05:56.493 because I wanted more grip, but I do that to almost every gun I have. 00:05:57.171 --> 00:06:00.690 Yes, you do. But the trigger on it, I think, is great. 00:06:01.671 --> 00:06:04.834 It's optics ready. I've got an optic on it. I think you've got an optic on yours. 00:06:05.223 --> 00:06:05.951 Gots to have it. 00:06:05.951 --> 00:06:11.751 And they're great guns. They're super reliable. They run like a champ. That's true. 00:06:11.751 --> 00:06:12.776 And they're made in the U.S. 00:06:13.117 --> 00:06:18.491 Yeah, the HK CC9 is made in the U.S. Yeah. That's correct, which is super cool. 00:06:18.491 --> 00:06:19.072 Yeah, I love it. 00:06:19.345 --> 00:06:27.071 Yeah. Designed and engineered and made by Americans that understand Americans 00:06:27.071 --> 00:06:29.939 and understand concealed carry. Right. Yeah. 00:06:30.670 --> 00:06:34.003 Nothing against your German counterparts in HK Germany. 00:06:35.031 --> 00:06:37.538 But you know americans less than americans do i'm sorry 00:06:37.770 --> 00:06:41.291 But you don't really have concealed carry there so you know that whole project 00:06:41.591 --> 00:06:47.760 was born out of the american team going hey we want a micro compact, 00:06:48.422 --> 00:06:54.391 pistol that american concealed carriers will want to own and carry yeah and 00:06:54.391 --> 00:06:57.815 shoot and i'd say they succeeded massively in that regard, 00:06:58.610 --> 00:07:04.581 now we do have the vp9 cc that's come also that one's made in Germany is very 00:07:04.581 --> 00:07:06.900 similarly sized and and capable, 00:07:07.911 --> 00:07:12.220 and is great gun as well but now we like CC9 so, 00:07:13.173 --> 00:07:18.681 anyway sponsor is HK HK-USA.com is where you can go to learn more and check 00:07:18.681 --> 00:07:23.551 them out our secondary sponsor today's episode is dry fire pro shop calm and 00:07:23.551 --> 00:07:26.711 we'll do a separate sponsor read you know message, 00:07:27.278 --> 00:07:30.216 later in the episode about dry fire pro shop so. 00:07:31.679 --> 00:07:36.469 Now, here's the question, Jacob. I don't know, people maybe didn't come here 00:07:36.469 --> 00:07:40.455 to listen to this, but I feel like it would be irreverent of us if we didn't 00:07:40.809 --> 00:07:44.379 spend some time talking about 9-11 today, especially on the 25th anniversary. 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:49.119 It's crazy to think that 10 years ago we would have done a similar episode. 00:07:49.119 --> 00:07:52.796 I don't know if we talked about it really at length or not, but it would have been 15 years. 00:07:53.533 --> 00:07:57.379 15 years since 9-11 because we were doing the podcast that long, 00:07:57.379 --> 00:08:00.569 and it's crazy. I don't think we would ever imagine we would be doing an episode, 00:08:01.115 --> 00:08:06.124 on the 25th anniversary of such a terrible event. 00:08:06.391 --> 00:08:11.269 But we've talked about this, but I don't know if people, listeners, 00:08:11.609 --> 00:08:16.979 have heard this from us. Where were you when you first learned of the Twin Towers being hit? 00:08:16.979 --> 00:08:21.439 So the first tower was hit during the end of a sales meeting that I was sitting 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:23.255 in. So about 30 of us sitting in a room. 00:08:23.922 --> 00:08:28.829 And over in the corner of the room are two desks where there's basically data 00:08:28.829 --> 00:08:32.717 entry employees working their data entry. 00:08:33.071 --> 00:08:36.479 And so they saw right away. They were seeing the news alerts like, 00:08:36.479 --> 00:08:37.229 oh, crap, something's like that. 00:08:37.435 --> 00:08:40.359 But the rest of us were in a sales meeting to talk about how much product we're 00:08:40.359 --> 00:08:42.509 moving or whatever. Right. I was a salesman. 00:08:43.089 --> 00:08:47.396 And so meeting wraps up, and everyone starts to disappear. 00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:51.649 And I went over to one of those data entry people to ask them a question about 00:08:51.649 --> 00:08:52.725 something work-related. 00:08:53.709 --> 00:08:57.387 And they basically bring it like, hey, just see what's going on kind of thing. 00:08:57.915 --> 00:09:01.379 And so I just pulled up a chair and sat like next to the data entry people for 00:09:01.379 --> 00:09:04.272 the next hour or two. That's where I was. 00:09:07.370 --> 00:09:11.690 I mentioned this this morning in our company meeting. I was commuting on my 00:09:11.690 --> 00:09:14.767 way to a construction site in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. 00:09:15.202 --> 00:09:20.540 We were building some kind of fancier condos over there, my dad and I working together. 00:09:20.540 --> 00:09:23.149 Very little things in Jackson Hole that are not fancy. Yeah. 00:09:23.747 --> 00:09:28.980 And so I was fortunate to have a job there, even though it was a little bit of a commute every day. 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:34.600 We would commute about 40, 45 miles over the Teton Pass into Jackson, 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:39.605 over from Idaho each morning. And, of course, go back each day, each evening. 00:09:40.226 --> 00:09:43.843 And we're just listening to the radio. And all of a sudden, it was, 00:09:44.551 --> 00:09:49.150 you know, it interrupted the radio. It just came in. Like, sorry to interrupt 00:09:49.150 --> 00:09:55.076 this current programming, but, you know, breaking news, whatever. It was a big deal, right? 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:00.740 And it just they there was not a lot of information at that time but it just 00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:05.031 said something about an airplane crashing into one of the two world trade center buildings, 00:10:06.239 --> 00:10:11.070 and uh we're like you know i remember so well like looking at my dad being like 00:10:11.070 --> 00:10:15.294 oh man that's crazy you know but in our minds because we talked about it like, 00:10:16.293 --> 00:10:22.196 we we were picturing like a cessna 182 or something you know Like a smaller, you know, 00:10:23.282 --> 00:10:25.930 four-seater airplane or something, you know, crashing. 00:10:26.452 --> 00:10:30.040 And that kind of thing has happened before where a small plane crashed into 00:10:30.040 --> 00:10:32.400 a building someplace, you know. And so you're just kind of like, 00:10:32.400 --> 00:10:34.415 oh, man, that's too bad. That's pretty wild, you know. 00:10:35.950 --> 00:10:39.370 So we're just not wrapping our heads around. No, it's way bigger than that. 00:10:39.370 --> 00:10:40.510 It's way bigger than that. 00:10:40.887 --> 00:10:43.850 And then, of course, reports kind of kept coming in. And then, 00:10:43.850 --> 00:10:46.970 you know, it comes in like, oh, a second plane has hit the other tower. 00:10:46.970 --> 00:10:50.450 And it's like, whoa, what the heck is going on? And now the reports are that 00:10:50.450 --> 00:10:54.900 these are not small planes. These are big planes, you know, 757, 00:10:54.900 --> 00:10:58.296 737s or whatever, right? I think most of them are 757s. 00:10:59.273 --> 00:11:05.002 Um, anyway, it's just like, whoa, uh, what is going on? And, 00:11:05.002 --> 00:11:08.543 and be, you know, it was just strange listening to the radio like that. 00:11:08.979 --> 00:11:14.292 And then coming to that realization, like our country's under attack because 00:11:14.292 --> 00:11:17.570 then the word comes in the Pentagon's now been crashed into, 00:11:18.081 --> 00:11:20.182 and you're like, this is coordinated. 00:11:20.333 --> 00:11:22.533 This is planned. This is intentional. 00:11:22.887 --> 00:11:26.372 Uh, we, we as a nation are under attack. 00:11:26.372 --> 00:11:32.330 Uh and that was just it was wild man i mentioned this morning how i. 00:11:33.096 --> 00:11:38.662 I remember studying you know orson welles uh war of the worlds back in school 00:11:38.662 --> 00:11:40.178 back in like grade school or whatever, 00:11:40.643 --> 00:11:44.422 and like kind of how that was impactful to people because that was also in the 00:11:44.422 --> 00:11:49.072 age of radio in fact just like pre-television right here i'm in a location i 00:11:49.072 --> 00:11:52.311 don't have access to a tv so i can't just go see and pull up what's on. 00:11:52.502 --> 00:11:54.795 I don't have a smartphone, so I can't do that. 00:11:55.068 --> 00:11:58.725 I'm just purely reliant upon reports coming through the radio. 00:11:59.056 --> 00:12:03.432 And so I'm like, our country's under attack. And I'm like, this is like war of the worlds. 00:12:03.432 --> 00:12:07.242 It was mind-blowing at that time, that perspective. 00:12:07.242 --> 00:12:11.902 And then it wasn't until, I think we actually left work early because the superintendent 00:12:11.902 --> 00:12:15.492 or foreman or whoever was like, you guys aren't getting any work done today 00:12:15.492 --> 00:12:19.722 with what's going on. Just go home. I think we cut out maybe 1 o'clock or something 00:12:19.722 --> 00:12:20.952 in the afternoon and went home. 00:12:21.452 --> 00:12:24.742 But I get home and turn on the TV for the first time. And that's when those 00:12:24.742 --> 00:12:29.387 images just like seared into my brain. It was really something. 00:12:30.785 --> 00:12:34.050 Yeah, you know, I'm several layers removed from this. And I think that's, 00:12:34.390 --> 00:12:39.899 you know, I think that we all have varying degrees of separation from this event. 00:12:40.890 --> 00:12:43.270 Some people listen to this, maybe you were there. I mean, for all I know, 00:12:43.270 --> 00:12:45.872 someone listened to this, you were pulled out of the wreckage. I mean, I don't know. 00:12:47.730 --> 00:12:48.970 Or you knew somebody that was there. 00:12:48.970 --> 00:12:53.090 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or maybe you knew someone, a relative or a close friend, 00:12:53.090 --> 00:12:56.019 or you lost somebody, you know, in that event. 00:12:56.870 --> 00:13:01.240 I'm several layers removed. I don't know anyone who – I don't even know if I 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:05.168 know anyone who knows somebody who was lost in 9-11. 00:13:07.461 --> 00:13:11.795 But I think that the point is it's still a unifying thing as a country. 00:13:11.795 --> 00:13:15.292 And that was, you know, when we say never forget, I think we were talking about, 00:13:15.855 --> 00:13:22.405 you know, the sacrifices that were made and that we can't let those go to waste. 00:13:22.405 --> 00:13:28.485 That we have to take, you know, what came from those sacrifices and we have to keep that fresh. 00:13:29.844 --> 00:13:33.365 For sure. You know, I made a post about this earlier today. 00:13:33.725 --> 00:13:37.465 I just had something on my chest needed to get off. And that was kind of just, 00:13:38.325 --> 00:13:43.145 of my post was I was talking, you know, I re-shared what I shared several years 00:13:43.145 --> 00:13:46.423 ago when you and I went to Flight 83 Memorial. 00:13:47.189 --> 00:13:50.213 And some of the images that I took while we were there. 00:13:52.292 --> 00:13:56.007 And just sort of recounted the story of Flight 93. Not to discount, 00:13:56.547 --> 00:14:01.614 you know, Flight 175, Flight 11, Flight, what's the fourth one? 00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:07.129 Anyway i forget but you know but just thinking about 93 what happened there, 00:14:07.692 --> 00:14:09.944 these are people are flying on a plane and all of a sudden, 00:14:10.682 --> 00:14:15.185 they come under hijack and of course those those dudes do the same thing managed 00:14:15.185 --> 00:14:18.536 to gain control of the cockpit managed to take control of the plane, 00:14:19.383 --> 00:14:22.475 now these people are freaking out and they're initially they're probably just 00:14:22.475 --> 00:14:28.795 thinking we meaning just just we our plane is hijacked they're they have no 00:14:28.795 --> 00:14:31.735 context that there's three other planes that are in the same boat right, 00:14:32.728 --> 00:14:37.175 but they start you know their height they're basically pushed into the back 00:14:37.175 --> 00:14:40.983 of the plane you guys stay back there sit down you know and and, 00:14:42.103 --> 00:14:46.406 Anyway, some of them are able to get on phones and make phone calls and get 00:14:46.406 --> 00:14:51.762 information. And they're like, oh, planes have flown now into the Twin Towers. 00:14:52.209 --> 00:14:56.673 And a little while later, they hear over the phone that a plane has flown into the Pentagon. 00:14:57.045 --> 00:15:00.731 They're now realizing we are part of this. 00:15:01.538 --> 00:15:06.566 And I think when they chose to fight back, they were choosing to fight back 00:15:06.566 --> 00:15:10.596 to save themselves, but also realizing they were part of something bigger and 00:15:10.596 --> 00:15:13.856 that we can't allow this plane to turn around and go back to Washington, 00:15:13.856 --> 00:15:16.463 D.C., where it was apparent they were starting to head. 00:15:18.407 --> 00:15:24.587 And I just was kind of going back through that and recounting those stories and that history. 00:15:25.081 --> 00:15:29.272 Of course, we saw it all at the memorial and heard even, you know, audio tapes and things. 00:15:29.684 --> 00:15:35.106 And it was just, what I took from that, Jake, and what I kind of posted about 00:15:35.106 --> 00:15:40.760 is this, what we saw from those Americans on that plane was like the true American spirit. 00:15:41.271 --> 00:15:43.959 Like, we're not going to take this laying down. 00:15:45.026 --> 00:15:46.072 We're going to fight back. 00:15:47.166 --> 00:15:55.400 And it's that American spirit of sacrifice and hard work and courage and, 00:15:55.743 --> 00:16:01.226 you know, love your country, love your fellow man, and doing whatever you got to do. 00:16:01.786 --> 00:16:04.555 Even if it's hard, because it's the right thing to do. 00:16:05.606 --> 00:16:09.193 I think that sort of embodies what's made America great since the beginning. 00:16:09.744 --> 00:16:16.234 Especially that doing hard things even, but doing hard things because they're the right things. 00:16:16.774 --> 00:16:20.286 Not that other countries or other people haven't done hard things because they're 00:16:20.286 --> 00:16:24.627 right. But, you know, not that long ago we were talking about Independence Day 00:16:24.749 --> 00:16:28.516 and that great history. And like those were hard things that our nation's founders 00:16:28.516 --> 00:16:31.552 did to create what we have today. 00:16:32.011 --> 00:16:33.561 And they were also the right things to do. 00:16:34.496 --> 00:16:37.868 So great sacrifices made us who we are today. 00:16:38.373 --> 00:16:38.844 Agreed. 00:16:39.070 --> 00:16:39.436 Anyway. 00:16:40.707 --> 00:16:46.733 We should move on to our topic, but to all of you everywhere, never forget. 00:16:48.532 --> 00:16:52.015 Lessons for permanent renewal classes. Where should we start? 00:16:53.091 --> 00:16:55.417 Some context. So I think 00:16:57.971 --> 00:17:04.711 to understand this, in Colorado, historically, there was no independent separate renewal class. 00:17:05.131 --> 00:17:08.513 And most states don't have an independent separate renewal class. 00:17:08.896 --> 00:17:15.775 But here in Colorado recently, as of July 1st, 2025, we instituted a required renewal class. 00:17:16.338 --> 00:17:19.757 And so depending on what county you lived in Colorado previously, 00:17:20.245 --> 00:17:22.467 you maybe have never had to do any renewal class. 00:17:22.925 --> 00:17:27.191 You might have taken your concealed carry class 20, 25, 30 years ago and still 00:17:27.191 --> 00:17:28.672 just be cashing in on that. 00:17:30.371 --> 00:17:33.191 Which, by the way, I don't think you should have to take any class ever to get 00:17:33.191 --> 00:17:34.030 anything, but whatever. 00:17:34.951 --> 00:17:40.951 But that's how it is now in Colorado. No, there's an independent renewal class that has to be taken. 00:17:41.571 --> 00:17:48.091 And this gives us an opportunity to observe what people who have been carrying for, 00:17:49.311 --> 00:17:52.691 I'd say at the least five, but more at this stage of the game, 00:17:52.691 --> 00:17:55.515 we're seeing more people that have probably been carrying for at least 10 years 00:17:55.886 --> 00:17:57.900 or more coming through these classes. 00:17:58.492 --> 00:18:05.806 And so it's an interesting kind of demographic, like universe of data in terms of what I'm observing. 00:18:06.183 --> 00:18:09.919 And it's not the same as what I see through the rest of our business activities. 00:18:09.919 --> 00:18:11.797 And that's what drove me to think about this. 00:18:12.238 --> 00:18:15.442 Because if I go to the Guardian Conference, which we're doing next week, 00:18:15.779 --> 00:18:21.469 or if I go to S12 or any really kind of class like that, that's probably a couple 00:18:21.469 --> 00:18:24.599 hundred dollars and a lot of people are traveling to it 00:18:25.275 --> 00:18:30.377 or they're taking time off work, you don't get the average concealed carrier in that class. 00:18:30.899 --> 00:18:34.989 You're getting training junkies. People who are really committed, 00:18:34.989 --> 00:18:39.339 like they've made this a hobby and or they're just committed to expending their 00:18:39.339 --> 00:18:42.126 resources into becoming highly competent. 00:18:43.345 --> 00:18:46.213 And that's not the universe that shows up at the renewal class. 00:18:46.643 --> 00:18:51.659 So, I mean, I already believe that people who have concealed carry permits are 00:18:51.659 --> 00:18:55.490 of a different type than the average American gun owner. 00:18:55.977 --> 00:18:59.269 The average American gun owner owns guns. That doesn't mean they have any degree 00:18:59.269 --> 00:19:02.328 of competence or that they have any interest in self-defense. They might be hunters. 00:19:03.099 --> 00:19:07.619 But then you take even a smaller universe from American gun owners of concealed 00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:13.869 carriers and there's an implied level of increased competence with handgun and 00:19:13.869 --> 00:19:16.701 concealed carry related skills and lifestyle things. 00:19:17.038 --> 00:19:20.955 And then I think there's a sub-universe of that that is like the training junkies 00:19:21.146 --> 00:19:23.248 that we tend to see most of the time. 00:19:23.550 --> 00:19:29.829 And these renewal classes have exposed, to me, a stronger reality that those 00:19:29.829 --> 00:19:33.589 two groups are not the same. The people we see at most training are not the 00:19:33.589 --> 00:19:35.595 same as just your average concealed carrier. 00:19:37.052 --> 00:19:42.296 Yeah, I agree with that for sure. You know, so I mentioned I haven't taught 00:19:42.296 --> 00:19:47.164 renewal classes, at least yet, but I have taught a lot of concealed carry classes over the years. 00:19:47.402 --> 00:19:51.616 Sure. And just thinking back to the sorts of people I've interacted with as 00:19:51.616 --> 00:19:57.590 an instructor and seeing them, and they come from all walks of life and different backgrounds, 00:19:58.536 --> 00:20:01.556 but in conversations with them, and quite often I'd ask, you know, 00:20:01.956 --> 00:20:05.084 so tell me, you know, why are you here kind of thing? 00:20:05.836 --> 00:20:09.148 Uh what are you hoping to achieve by coming through my class that sort of thing, 00:20:09.844 --> 00:20:13.456 and you know the stories are often pretty similar uh something, 00:20:14.488 --> 00:20:18.956 a lot of times it's well i grew up around guns or i've owned guns for many years 00:20:18.956 --> 00:20:25.076 or this or that uh but uh something happened and inspired me to then get a permit 00:20:25.076 --> 00:20:28.150 so i can actually carry uh and uh, 00:20:30.775 --> 00:20:34.513 And it's pretty common, like I said, that a lot of people are like, 00:20:34.775 --> 00:20:37.966 well, I've already got experience with guns. You know, I know what I'm doing. 00:20:37.966 --> 00:20:40.104 I'm just here for the paperwork, you know, kind of thing. 00:20:40.926 --> 00:20:46.083 Just so I can get that little card to put in my wallet so I can carry concealed legally, lawfully. 00:20:48.254 --> 00:20:52.196 So I would imagine that you see some similar things in those renewal classes. 00:20:52.196 --> 00:20:56.189 People that show up and now in the renewal class, there's a live fire component 00:20:56.537 --> 00:20:57.791 that they got to complete. 00:21:00.146 --> 00:21:05.166 I mean, these people obviously care about keeping up to date with the permit, right? 00:21:06.446 --> 00:21:09.776 It's not like all the motivation has disappeared. Oh, that thing that caused 00:21:09.776 --> 00:21:12.586 me to get the permit five, ten years ago, like I'm over it. 00:21:13.086 --> 00:21:17.206 I don't need to renew now. I don't see those people. The people we see that 00:21:17.206 --> 00:21:21.927 come to the class, the people are like, no, I'm not letting this expire. This is important to me. 00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:27.986 So that implies a certain degree of commitment to this. And that's where I think 00:21:27.986 --> 00:21:35.732 there's a juxtaposition here where there's a stated mission of commitment to this. 00:21:36.144 --> 00:21:42.706 But what I'm observing in the classes is you are not actually doing what's necessary 00:21:42.706 --> 00:21:45.467 to have any degree of competence at this thing. 00:21:46.658 --> 00:21:46.948 Yeah. 00:21:48.202 --> 00:21:51.418 And that comes to varying degrees. I'm maybe being a little bit too general. 00:21:51.656 --> 00:21:55.652 So those who are listening to this or watching this, I think the takeaway would 00:21:55.652 --> 00:21:59.422 be if it's been five, ten years since you started caring, since you got your 00:21:59.422 --> 00:22:01.727 permit, maybe 15, 20, 30 years, whatever it is. 00:22:02.105 --> 00:22:05.675 As we talk through these observations, how many of them apply to you? 00:22:06.191 --> 00:22:11.143 And if they do apply to you, maybe there's some things you could wake up and do better. 00:22:11.834 --> 00:22:16.532 Yeah. And that is our hope today is that these things we share with you are 00:22:16.532 --> 00:22:19.792 opportunities for you to be better. 00:22:19.792 --> 00:22:24.632 I mean, we all have room to grow and to do better in various ways. 00:22:24.632 --> 00:22:27.782 But we're all, you know, it's like a continuum. We're all at different points 00:22:27.782 --> 00:22:34.530 along this continuum of growth or progress or whatever in this concealed carry space or lifestyle. 00:22:36.898 --> 00:22:42.582 And wherever you are on that continuum, we want you to be moving forward, 00:22:43.242 --> 00:22:46.134 further down the line on that continuum. 00:22:47.082 --> 00:22:50.472 So why don't we start jumping into some of these specific takeaways, 00:22:50.472 --> 00:22:55.074 Jacob? Do you want to do these in order in the way they're listed? All right. First up. 00:22:56.008 --> 00:22:57.155 This one did not surprise me. 00:22:57.955 --> 00:22:59.565 None of these are going to surprise most of people, 00:22:59.565 --> 00:23:01.855 Doesn't it? Sure, sure. This one, though, I was like, oh, yeah, 00:23:01.855 --> 00:23:07.037 for sure, for sure. Number one, almost nobody owns a shot timer. 00:23:07.530 --> 00:23:12.525 Yeah, I think I had had almost 80 students by the time I found one who said 00:23:12.525 --> 00:23:13.601 that they owned a shot timer. 00:23:14.295 --> 00:23:17.795 And I think I'm closer to the 150 to 200 renewal students now, 00:23:17.795 --> 00:23:21.915 and I still think I just had the one who owned a shot timer. Wow, yeah. 00:23:22.375 --> 00:23:24.855 And I think the majority of them don't know what a shot timer is. 00:23:25.195 --> 00:23:25.645 Of course. 00:23:25.645 --> 00:23:28.735 Some will. Some will be like, oh, no, no, yeah, I know what that is. I just don't have one. 00:23:29.535 --> 00:23:34.685 But I think the takeaway is this. It's like the gear, like you owning something is irrelevant. 00:23:35.138 --> 00:23:40.205 The point is that if you don't have a shot timer, I'm inferring that you never measure speed, 00:23:41.415 --> 00:23:45.476 That you only ever measure accuracy, that when you go to the range and you shoot, 00:23:46.175 --> 00:23:50.915 that you hopefully, presumably, you're being deliberate about your capability 00:23:50.915 --> 00:23:54.056 as it relates to putting a hole in a certain place on paper. 00:23:54.747 --> 00:23:59.265 But you don't actually have a reference for, and it's not important enough to 00:23:59.265 --> 00:24:03.013 you to go out of your way to measure how quickly you can put that hole in that paper. 00:24:03.571 --> 00:24:07.745 And in a self-defense reality, which is the arena of discussion in a consult 00:24:07.745 --> 00:24:11.203 carry class, and in this podcast, that's highly relevant. 00:24:11.598 --> 00:24:16.979 I mean, the speed at which you can put the hole where you want it to be is highly relevant. 00:24:17.275 --> 00:24:22.245 And so that lack of a shot timer, and to give you an idea of how we go about 00:24:22.245 --> 00:24:25.285 this, At the beginning of the class, I talk a little bit about what's in my 00:24:25.285 --> 00:24:29.465 range bag and what people might consider packing in their bag to bring to the range. 00:24:29.738 --> 00:24:34.265 It's just a little conversation about being prepared to have a good experience 00:24:34.265 --> 00:24:36.681 at the range. And so I talk about stuff in my bag, right? 00:24:36.965 --> 00:24:40.675 And most of the stuff, like how many of you have one of these kind of thing. 00:24:41.235 --> 00:24:43.695 And there's other things on the list. We talk about dummy ammo and why I'd bring 00:24:43.695 --> 00:24:46.655 that to the range. We talk about why I'd bring my cleaning kit and gun oil to 00:24:46.655 --> 00:24:48.632 the range. We talk about – I said dummy ammo. 00:24:48.969 --> 00:24:53.265 We talk about my mag loader, you know, like, hey, you know, thumbs, 00:24:53.265 --> 00:24:54.984 they get tired, so I bring one of these, you know. 00:24:55.199 --> 00:24:57.445 And I don't know how many people have one of those. And, you know, 00:24:57.445 --> 00:25:00.135 varying degrees I get. But the thing that no one has is a shot timer. 00:25:00.135 --> 00:25:00.689 Mm-hmm. 00:25:02.651 --> 00:25:08.469 For sure. I mean, I think that's even pretty true amongst many of those that 00:25:08.469 --> 00:25:13.668 are more avid shooters or take classes periodically. 00:25:14.028 --> 00:25:15.555 They just don't get around to buying one. 00:25:16.419 --> 00:25:19.949 Maybe they don't know quite where to work that into their personal routines 00:25:19.949 --> 00:25:21.354 and practice and so forth. 00:25:21.830 --> 00:25:27.078 And it's an investment you've got to make. You know, they're not inexpensive. 00:25:28.059 --> 00:25:33.092 I mean, we're pretty happy to be able to offer what we do with range tech, 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:37.660 shot timer. Yeah, for $90. Right? You know, like you can't find anything really 00:25:38.055 --> 00:25:39.802 any better than that price-wise. 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:45.639 So, but even then, you know, it's still $90. But most of them are $150, 00:25:45.639 --> 00:25:47.563 $200, $300, some of them. 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:53.439 So, they're not inexpensive. As you touched on, Jacob, you know, 00:25:53.439 --> 00:25:59.324 if you hear someone say they don't own a shot timer, then they must not practice or worry about speed. 00:25:59.980 --> 00:26:06.899 And I agree. I think that there are some that think that they don't need it. 00:26:07.450 --> 00:26:10.353 They think they are fast or fast enough. 00:26:12.459 --> 00:26:16.163 But the reality is you don't know how fast you are unless you actually measure it. 00:26:17.592 --> 00:26:20.895 And then there is a little bit of debate there of, well, how fast do you need to be? 00:26:21.807 --> 00:26:24.724 But I'm not going to really get into that. What I would say, 00:26:24.724 --> 00:26:28.245 though, is if your life's on the line, somebody's trying to kill you, 00:26:29.139 --> 00:26:32.598 you need both accuracy and speed. You need them both. 00:26:33.016 --> 00:26:39.614 You need to put a round or several rounds in a placement on the body that is 00:26:39.614 --> 00:26:43.564 going to make a difference quickly and reasonably reliably. 00:26:44.127 --> 00:26:47.331 And you need to do it as soon as possible. Right? 00:26:48.054 --> 00:26:53.674 And so the way to get better at being able to be accurate and fast is you've 00:26:53.674 --> 00:26:57.184 got to measure both of those things. Measuring accuracy is easy because we can 00:26:57.184 --> 00:27:00.451 set that standard and put a target up, and this is where I've got to put my rounds. 00:27:00.985 --> 00:27:03.214 Measuring time requires having a shot timer. 00:27:03.567 --> 00:27:09.250 Well, and maybe this is me transitioning to a second of our six points for our outline here, But 00:27:10.974 --> 00:27:17.434 it's also – it shows not just that you are not interested enough in speed to 00:27:17.434 --> 00:27:18.515 go out of your way to measure it, 00:27:18.967 --> 00:27:24.221 but it also leads to a reality where you have no idea how fast you are. 00:27:24.854 --> 00:27:30.484 So there's a lack of awareness in this student population, this group, of their own skills. 00:27:30.914 --> 00:27:35.599 I'll give you – we've talked about speed quite a bit. So let me give you another example of this. 00:27:35.964 --> 00:27:39.234 And this is point number two, I guess. I don't know if we're out of order now, 00:27:39.234 --> 00:27:45.426 but point number two is that there's a lack of awareness of one's own degree of competency. 00:27:46.204 --> 00:27:50.874 So the first shooting thing I do in the class, you'll remember this because 00:27:51.214 --> 00:27:54.395 you've said it many times yourself, is basically give me your five best shots. 00:27:55.469 --> 00:27:58.806 Give me your five best shots. There's no time. There's no, you know, 00:27:58.806 --> 00:28:02.178 take your time, your pace. I do it for five yards. 00:28:02.498 --> 00:28:08.163 So this is not an extreme thing. I'm using a USPSA A zone, basically. 00:28:08.355 --> 00:28:12.606 You know, it's the PIQ target, so it's got a three-inch circle bullseye that 00:28:12.606 --> 00:28:15.506 they're aiming for within that A zone. But anyway, you know, 00:28:15.506 --> 00:28:16.523 give me your five best shots. 00:28:17.109 --> 00:28:20.836 And at the end of that, I'll always say, you know, who's proud of what they 00:28:20.836 --> 00:28:22.229