WEBVTT 00:00:15.626 --> 00:00:16.708 And welcome to the Concealed Carry 00:00:16.708 --> 00:00:21.547 Podcast, part of the ConcealedCarry.com network, brought to you by HK. 00:00:22.662 --> 00:00:28.728 Today is Friday, August 7th, 2026, as of the recording of this live episode. 00:00:29.274 --> 00:00:32.490 I am your host, Riley Bowman, joined today by... 00:00:32.855 --> 00:00:33.988 Jacob Paulson. 00:00:34.308 --> 00:00:39.658 There's the man himself. We are glad to be with you for a Justified Saves episode 00:00:39.658 --> 00:00:42.213 today. We've got a bunch of great stories. 00:00:42.631 --> 00:00:47.818 Probably the most notable one is there's a great example of a justified save 00:00:47.818 --> 00:00:50.624 just this past weekend in Twin Falls, Idaho. 00:00:50.857 --> 00:00:53.353 It's going viral amongst the gun folk. 00:00:53.951 --> 00:00:58.298 Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. There's been mainstream reporting on 00:00:58.298 --> 00:01:04.468 it, but not nearly as widespread as what it is amongst the more conservative 00:01:04.468 --> 00:01:06.778 channels and gun channels. 00:01:06.778 --> 00:01:08.908 Yes, it's hot to trot. 00:01:08.908 --> 00:01:13.588 Yeah, yeah. So we intend to share some of our thoughts and our take on the In-N-Out, 00:01:14.488 --> 00:01:19.668 burger shooting there in Idaho this past Saturday, just a little less than a week ago. 00:01:19.708 --> 00:01:22.231 Well, a spoiler. In-N-Out is overrated. 00:01:24.872 --> 00:01:30.961 I don't disagree. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I appreciate the... 00:01:32.512 --> 00:01:33.497 I appreciate the business and 00:01:33.497 --> 00:01:37.626 the business model and what they've done to create such a cult following. 00:01:39.664 --> 00:01:43.967 And I think they're a pretty cool company. I mean, every In-N-Out location is 00:01:43.967 --> 00:01:46.380 owned by In-N-Out. It's not a franchise. 00:01:47.001 --> 00:01:54.008 The family behind the business is particularly the, I think she's the inheritance CEO of the company. 00:01:54.594 --> 00:01:57.857 Seems like a pretty cool lady. I read an interview with her a while back that, 00:01:58.629 --> 00:02:02.547 I had some appreciation. They have some good values, family values, 00:02:02.547 --> 00:02:05.426 Christian values. They're good folks. 00:02:06.817 --> 00:02:09.747 But the burger itself, I agree. Overrated. 00:02:11.517 --> 00:02:15.377 It's just, I mean, good. We're going to get. Props to them for doing good business 00:02:15.377 --> 00:02:20.057 marketing things. Yeah. But I think I'd rather go to a McDonald's. 00:02:21.357 --> 00:02:23.019 I hope that's not too strong of an insult. 00:02:23.897 --> 00:02:26.057 That's a little strong, I think. 00:02:26.057 --> 00:02:29.477 But I mean it. I'm honest. I would rather go to a McDonald's than In-N-Out. 00:02:30.577 --> 00:02:33.097 I'd rather go to Burger King. Sorry, is it getting too strong? 00:02:34.677 --> 00:02:38.147 Sorry. Sorry to interrupt. I just thought, you know, a little spoiler before 00:02:38.147 --> 00:02:39.499 we get to the important things. 00:02:40.021 --> 00:02:44.857 Hey, I appreciate a good burger and fries, and I don't have anything against 00:02:44.857 --> 00:02:47.521 In-N-Out. I've had it a number of times. 00:02:48.957 --> 00:02:52.147 Animal style is definitely the way to go. Like, yeah. 00:02:52.147 --> 00:02:52.920 Put it on the menu. Yeah. 00:02:55.057 --> 00:02:57.141 But there are a lot of places I would rather... 00:02:58.364 --> 00:03:02.427 Eat than In-N-Out for a burger and fries, for sure. Yeah, for sure. 00:03:02.706 --> 00:03:05.063 Whataburger would be one of those. We're going to get so much hate mail. 00:03:05.435 --> 00:03:11.263 I would go to Whataburger 10 times out of 10 if it was right next door to an In-N-Out. 00:03:11.931 --> 00:03:13.986 Yeah, I would never go to the In-N-Out ever. 00:03:14.438 --> 00:03:21.740 Yeah. So anyway, now that we're going to get the hate mail rolling in. 00:03:22.013 --> 00:03:24.791 Hey, if you want to send that hate mail, podcast.concealedcarry.com. 00:03:24.791 --> 00:03:25.741 That's our email address. 00:03:25.741 --> 00:03:28.851 Yeah, we just got an email when we were sitting here as we were getting ready 00:03:28.851 --> 00:03:32.831 to record from somebody who listened to last week's episode who lives in Cheyenne 00:03:32.831 --> 00:03:36.821 and was reminiscing about the middle-of-nowhere gun range we talked about last 00:03:36.821 --> 00:03:39.781 week. So, yeah, bring on the email and the messages. 00:03:39.781 --> 00:03:43.471 Yeah, yeah. Let us know how much you love In-N-Out. 00:03:44.958 --> 00:03:45.371 Or don't. 00:03:46.891 --> 00:03:49.457 Let's see. We've got a comment already coming in. What is it? 00:03:50.391 --> 00:03:53.101 Five, seven, one stacked. I don't even know what that means. 00:03:53.101 --> 00:03:54.728 Hello, Kim. Thanks for joining us. 00:03:55.733 --> 00:03:57.354 If you can interpret that, Jacob, let me know. 00:03:57.914 --> 00:03:59.489 I think we're talking about FN 5-7. 00:04:00.574 --> 00:04:03.894 Oh, maybe a reference to the In-N-Out thing, to the shooting. 00:04:04.463 --> 00:04:07.288 And one of the heroes of that shooting. 00:04:08.542 --> 00:04:11.194 Guys, we also have a bunch of other really good stories. And one of the reasons 00:04:11.194 --> 00:04:14.604 we do the Justified Savings episode is to share lessons learned and things we 00:04:14.604 --> 00:04:16.438 can get out of these experiences. 00:04:17.901 --> 00:04:23.354 The likelihood any one of us at any given time or on any given day would be involved in, 00:04:24.754 --> 00:04:28.454 a shooting, particularly like a mass shooting or, 00:04:28.934 --> 00:04:33.234 active killer attack you know that kind of thing pretty low or any kind of justified 00:04:33.234 --> 00:04:38.574 save type incident it's relatively low chance uh for some of us less so than 00:04:38.574 --> 00:04:41.722 others depending on where you live but it's still a relatively low chance, 00:04:42.239 --> 00:04:45.832 and uh that means you know this is not the sort of thing that, 00:04:47.579 --> 00:04:52.114 uh any one person gets a lot of experience in is in self-defense actual you 00:04:52.114 --> 00:04:55.194 know use of gun incidents right we're in practice. 00:04:55.194 --> 00:04:55.854 Us all the time we 00:04:55.854 --> 00:05:00.154 Never go to the game we think it's highly valuable to study these kinds of incidents 00:05:00.154 --> 00:05:04.547 and that's what we do here is bringing to you a number of these justified saves 00:05:04.832 --> 00:05:07.984 i have to let you know every time we go through and pull stories for this, 00:05:09.134 --> 00:05:13.234 and our sources for these because we're not doing video reviews like our friend 00:05:13.234 --> 00:05:16.264 john korea or anything like it doesn't matter if they have a video attached 00:05:16.264 --> 00:05:18.408 to them or not sometimes we get a video sometimes we don't 00:05:18.843 --> 00:05:23.424 but we pull from all kinds of stories, and I have to filter through and get 00:05:23.424 --> 00:05:25.867 rid of so many good examples. 00:05:26.413 --> 00:05:31.404 Tons and tons of, like, it's interesting because I saw something recently, 00:05:31.404 --> 00:05:35.794 Jacob, is on some mainstream, I don't remember, CNN or something. 00:05:35.794 --> 00:05:40.263 It was a more mainstream publication of some sort, and there was a reference, 00:05:40.641 --> 00:05:45.724 and they were obviously referencing to or quoting from one of the more anti-gun 00:05:45.724 --> 00:05:48.334 organizations out there, just talking about how, 00:05:48.854 --> 00:05:52.204 rare it is for citizens to use their gun in self-defense. 00:05:53.109 --> 00:05:57.126 Now, I just said a moment ago, it is rare that any one of us would have an incident. 00:05:57.642 --> 00:06:01.084 But how rare are these sorts of things actually to occur, meaning any kind of 00:06:01.084 --> 00:06:03.238 justified save or defensive gun use? 00:06:03.424 --> 00:06:03.974 Not rare at all. 00:06:04.614 --> 00:06:09.412 I can find an example every single day. Every single day. And those are just... And that's... 00:06:10.413 --> 00:06:14.507 Just filtering through the ones that are out there and those are the only ones 00:06:14.507 --> 00:06:17.517 that those are just from the ones that actually get reported on right there's 00:06:17.517 --> 00:06:23.184 so many more that never even hit the news sites the airwaves and so forth um, 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.517 and so there's lots of great examples we do the best that we can to bring some 00:06:27.517 --> 00:06:29.193 to you that are of value in some way, 00:06:29.901 --> 00:06:34.517 we will get to actually we're gonna do our first sponsor read here in a moment 00:06:34.517 --> 00:06:38.869 but i do want to let you know our sponsors of Today's episode are CCW Safe, 00:06:39.583 --> 00:06:46.857 which you can find more at ccwsafe.com, and HK, which you can learn more about at hk-usa.com. 00:06:46.857 --> 00:06:49.179 Those are our sponsors today, CCW Safe and HK. 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:52.557 But we're going to go ahead and jump right into this first story, 00:06:52.557 --> 00:06:57.401 Jacob. This is a what not to do out of Hancock County, Indiana. 00:06:57.512 --> 00:06:57.993 Yeah. 00:06:58.301 --> 00:06:59.927 It's a road rage situation. 00:06:59.927 --> 00:07:03.997 And despite being a what not to do, the story starts out by telling us that 00:07:04.337 --> 00:07:05.577 no charges are being filed. 00:07:05.917 --> 00:07:14.257 So this is one of those, you know, presumably legal, but not awesome, 00:07:14.697 --> 00:07:16.941 you know, not awesome situations. 00:07:17.655 --> 00:07:21.307 Yeah, it is very clear that, you know, the prosecutor's office said that no 00:07:21.307 --> 00:07:23.541 charges are filed or will be filed. 00:07:25.077 --> 00:07:29.777 And so that's fair. So this technically would be considered a justified save, 00:07:29.777 --> 00:07:31.540 you know, as far as how we define it. 00:07:32.537 --> 00:07:37.117 But the what not to do aspect of this has more to do with some of the finer, 00:07:37.457 --> 00:07:42.807 you know, grainier details of the actual incident itself. And there's some takeaways. 00:07:42.807 --> 00:07:45.008 There's some really important takeaways, I think, from this incident. 00:07:45.637 --> 00:07:48.057 You want to give us the facts of this shooting? 00:07:48.057 --> 00:07:51.117 Yeah, I read to read this one a couple of times because we got two cars. 00:07:51.117 --> 00:07:53.750 We got a Volkswagen Jetta and a Dodge Journey. 00:07:54.226 --> 00:07:56.443 Now, first I had to Google Dodge Journey. 00:07:56.779 --> 00:07:58.447 It's a little crossover funky thing. 00:07:58.677 --> 00:08:01.647 It's like, what the crap is a Dodge Journey? and a Volkswagen Jetta, 00:08:01.647 --> 00:08:04.617 I was shocked because, okay, never mind. I'll keep my thoughts to myself. 00:08:05.870 --> 00:08:09.782 That was not going to go well. All right. The hate mail would have come more. Okay, so... 00:08:10.612 --> 00:08:15.174 You had two vehicles cruising, the Jetta and the Dodge Journey. 00:08:15.766 --> 00:08:23.214 And according to witnesses, the Dodge Journey starts to ride the bumper of the Jetta aggressively. 00:08:23.400 --> 00:08:31.195 And they come to some sort of construction zone, and the Dodge Journey guy gets 00:08:31.195 --> 00:08:35.265 out of his Dodge Journey and aggressively approaches the Volkswagen Jetta. 00:08:36.495 --> 00:08:40.535 One witness specifically says that the Dodge Journey guy told the Volkswagen 00:08:40.535 --> 00:08:45.535 Jetta driver, you shouldn't be driving on my road that fast, mother such and such. 00:08:46.655 --> 00:08:52.500 So apparently we are upset that the Jetta has been driving so fast on our road, 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:54.385 and maybe there's other grievances. 00:08:54.385 --> 00:08:56.405 I like how he says it's my road. 00:08:56.405 --> 00:09:02.216 Right. You've been driving too fast on my road. So, yeah. 00:09:02.512 --> 00:09:06.297 So our Dodge guy, he starts to go back toward his Dodge. 00:09:07.022 --> 00:09:10.875 But he changes his mind. He's like, you know what? I got more to say to the Jetta driver. 00:09:11.602 --> 00:09:17.485 So Dodge goes back toward Jetta. Now, Jetta, maybe noting that this guy is coming 00:09:17.485 --> 00:09:22.336 back toward him, decides he doesn't like that. He doesn't want any more exchange. 00:09:22.696 --> 00:09:26.092 So Jetta driver steps out of his vehicle with a handgun. 00:09:27.737 --> 00:09:31.017 Now, as far as we know, Dodge Journey guy had no gun, had no weapon. 00:09:31.337 --> 00:09:32.757 There's certainly no mention of it anywhere. 00:09:32.757 --> 00:09:38.777 Yeah, it actually says in the article, the prosecutor makes no mention of this man being ever armed. 00:09:38.777 --> 00:09:41.254 Yeah, also doesn't make any mention of them not being armed. 00:09:41.434 --> 00:09:45.840 It's just not – so we assume, presuming that there was no gun there. 00:09:46.810 --> 00:09:52.758 So Volkswagen man says, quote, I wouldn't do that. Don't do that. Get back in your car. 00:09:53.478 --> 00:09:57.286 So the Jetta guy, he's basically like using his gun and inferring like, 00:09:57.553 --> 00:09:59.661 dude, stay away. Don't get closer to me. 00:09:59.968 --> 00:10:03.487 Go back to your Dodge Journey crossover thing, apparently. 00:10:03.487 --> 00:10:05.691 Yeah. Do you mind? I'm going to put the pause on just a little bit here. 00:10:05.691 --> 00:10:10.687 I'll let you continue with the facts here in a moment. But the way I kind of 00:10:10.687 --> 00:10:13.757 interpret this. Now, understand, folks, we read in between the lines on these 00:10:13.757 --> 00:10:14.847 stories a lot. Yeah, we do. 00:10:14.857 --> 00:10:20.077 And it's more about like, you know, it's less about what the actual facts of 00:10:20.077 --> 00:10:22.625 the incident are and more about what can we get out of this. 00:10:22.904 --> 00:10:27.972 What kind of situations can we see ourselves placed in that might mirror this or look like this? 00:10:28.366 --> 00:10:31.687 I mean, first, try to avoid road rage incidents wherever possible, right? 00:10:32.517 --> 00:10:36.177 But what I'm talking about here is, you know, it says the Volkswagen driver 00:10:36.177 --> 00:10:37.852 gets out of the car with a gun. 00:10:38.513 --> 00:10:42.297 And I'm thinking, you know, in my context, that's strange to me. 00:10:42.297 --> 00:10:47.267 Because if I was going to get out of my car, getting out of the car with my 00:10:47.267 --> 00:10:50.923 gun would mean I'm getting out and it's in my holster. like, 00:10:51.515 --> 00:10:53.025 you know, that or it's in my hand. 00:10:53.332 --> 00:10:56.717 But then I started thinking, Jacob, you know, because there's not a context 00:10:56.717 --> 00:11:00.722 where I would get out unless I was faced with a weapon with gun in hand. 00:11:01.262 --> 00:11:04.182 All right. Because it's just going to be in my holster. Right. 00:11:05.174 --> 00:11:07.437 And by the way, I'm not saying I would get out of the car in this incident. 00:11:07.437 --> 00:11:10.556 In fact, we'll talk about that. I'm sure some more as a lesson learned, but. 00:11:11.776 --> 00:11:15.787 The way I can see this happening, and maybe this gives some people some food for thought. 00:11:15.787 --> 00:11:20.158 So that's why I'm planting this idea here now is some people carry, 00:11:20.303 --> 00:11:23.677 you know, not on their personal in their car, but they'll have it in a car holster, 00:11:23.677 --> 00:11:28.036 you know, or put it in their glove box or center console or it's in their cup holder. 00:11:28.633 --> 00:11:33.556 And so if you're in that situation and you're like, well, I'm going to, 00:11:33.823 --> 00:11:37.236 for whatever reason, I'm not saying it's the right answer, get out of the vehicle, 00:11:37.591 --> 00:11:40.464 but you want to make sure you have a defensive tool available. 00:11:41.148 --> 00:11:44.772 Because you don't have anything else, and you don't have a holster on you, 00:11:44.772 --> 00:11:48.821 your only option is to get out of the car with that gun in hand. 00:11:49.352 --> 00:11:50.492 I guess you could stuff it in your waistband. 00:11:51.312 --> 00:11:54.336 But what people are going to do in a situation like that is they're going to just grab the gun. 00:11:54.626 --> 00:11:58.052 And it doesn't say anything about this guy pointing the gun at the other man 00:11:58.052 --> 00:12:01.157 until he fired or anything like that or using it in a threatening manner. 00:12:01.296 --> 00:12:04.602 It could simply have been that he just got out of the car and the gun is in 00:12:04.602 --> 00:12:08.352 his hand, even though it's down at his side. You see what I'm getting at? 00:12:08.352 --> 00:12:13.892 Well, I think he is certainly inferring a threat because a witness says, 00:12:14.352 --> 00:12:19.132 quote, I wouldn't do that, right? So don't do that. I wouldn't do that. 00:12:19.132 --> 00:12:21.195 Get back in your car, end quote. 00:12:21.596 --> 00:12:27.072 So I think that's suggestive that certainly he's holding the gun in some way 00:12:27.072 --> 00:12:31.472 that's – like he wants – he makes sure the other man sees it. 00:12:31.592 --> 00:12:35.512 You're reading that quote a little bit off. That supposedly is what the Volkswagen 00:12:35.512 --> 00:12:40.112 driver said to – The Dodge guy. Yeah, okay. I thought you said a witness said. 00:12:40.452 --> 00:12:42.242 Well, the witness says that this is what was said. 00:12:42.242 --> 00:12:43.042 Yeah, okay, gotcha. 00:12:43.042 --> 00:12:44.502 This is based on a witness statement. 00:12:44.502 --> 00:12:45.141 Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. 00:12:45.483 --> 00:12:51.462 The witness statement said that the Jetta gun-toting man told the Dodge Journey guy, 00:12:51.462 --> 00:12:53.882 I wouldn't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. 00:12:53.882 --> 00:12:58.392 Get back in your car. So that verbiage suggests to me that he was holding or 00:12:58.392 --> 00:13:03.530 displaying the gun in some way, that he intended the Dodge driver to see it. 00:13:03.692 --> 00:13:08.731 Ah, okay. I gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, so that may be, right? 00:13:09.472 --> 00:13:14.832 And I'm just saying what I think what I've seen happen in other instances, 00:13:14.832 --> 00:13:17.764 and that's why I'm bringing this into the conversation here, 00:13:18.333 --> 00:13:23.046 is someone gets out of a vehicle with a gun in hand. We've seen other situations like this. 00:13:23.892 --> 00:13:26.952 I'm basically asking the question, Jacob, why? Why would you do that? 00:13:26.952 --> 00:13:28.671 Especially if you're not... 00:13:29.449 --> 00:13:32.549 In a, you're not facing an imminent deadly threat. 00:13:33.043 --> 00:13:35.167 Right? Yeah, I mean. 00:13:35.446 --> 00:13:38.497 So you're either making, in other words, you're either making a bad decision. 00:13:39.377 --> 00:13:43.227 You're introducing a gun when one's not warranted yet, or you're doing it out 00:13:43.227 --> 00:13:46.517 of necessity because you're going to get out with gun. And the only way you 00:13:46.517 --> 00:13:50.537 have to do that because you don't carry it on your person is to get out with it in your hand. 00:13:50.537 --> 00:13:54.205 Yeah, either way bad. Either way bad. All right. Agreed, 100%. 00:13:55.494 --> 00:14:04.225 So, despite the Jetta's verbal threats or warnings, the Dodge Journeyman keeps advancing, 00:14:05.241 --> 00:14:12.195 and the Jetta driver then fires several shots, striking Dodge Journeyman more than once. 00:14:12.357 --> 00:14:17.367 Dodge Journeyman returns to said Dodge Journey and, quote, succumbed to his injuries. 00:14:17.994 --> 00:14:18.662 Yeah, yeah. 00:14:19.167 --> 00:14:24.211 So, here's the biggest thing that sticks out to me on this. I mean that isn't obvious 00:14:25.623 --> 00:14:28.578 Like, the Jetta driver is innocent 00:14:29.129 --> 00:14:32.902 as a driver. Like, he is not a participant in a road wage scenario. 00:14:33.233 --> 00:14:38.980 Like, we see a lot of these stories we read are two people who are both aggressors. 00:14:39.288 --> 00:14:40.172 Yeah, yeah. 00:14:40.172 --> 00:14:43.102 Like, it's usually unclear who pissed off, who first. But you usually have two 00:14:43.102 --> 00:14:47.088 people that are both aggressors, and they come to some confrontation. 00:14:47.419 --> 00:14:50.252 But this is different. I mean, in fact, we had that, what, 00:14:50.752 --> 00:14:53.912 six, four, five, six months ago, with a scenario where two guys were yelling 00:14:53.912 --> 00:14:56.732 at each other and they pull off on the side of the road and they keep yelling 00:14:56.732 --> 00:15:00.237 and screaming and fighting and eventually shots fire off and I'm sort of like 00:15:00.562 --> 00:15:02.263 yeah I mean who's the innocent party here 00:15:03.032 --> 00:15:06.872 in the moment that it escalates right but this is a scenario where any of us 00:15:06.872 --> 00:15:11.222 I think could identify with because based on the information we have Jeddah 00:15:11.222 --> 00:15:12.764 Driver didn't know he'd done anything wrong 00:15:13.352 --> 00:15:17.042 he wasn't swerving he wasn't flipping someone off he wasn't slamming on his 00:15:17.042 --> 00:15:20.978 brakes or you know like he just driving along as far as we know, 00:15:21.141 --> 00:15:24.699 and all of a sudden someone's upset with him. And it's like, what did I do? 00:15:25.065 --> 00:15:28.642 And this guy's yelling and screaming at me. And is he leaving? 00:15:28.642 --> 00:15:30.788 Is he going back to his car? No, wait, maybe he's coming back. 00:15:31.672 --> 00:15:34.086 So anyway, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that sometimes we think, 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:38.846 well, if I'm just good at de-escalation, if I don't escalate a road rage scenario, 00:15:39.055 --> 00:15:40.952 then I can avoid these situations. 00:15:41.512 --> 00:15:42.952 And this is a one-sided one. 00:15:43.552 --> 00:15:48.922 This is a proof and evidence that sometimes you can do nothing wrong on the 00:15:48.922 --> 00:15:50.832 road and not be escalating or 00:15:50.832 --> 00:15:54.524 being rude and still be targeted by someone else who's having a bad day. 00:15:54.948 --> 00:16:00.262 Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that's a fair point to make because it specifies 00:16:00.262 --> 00:16:02.032 that this happened in a construction zone. 00:16:02.032 --> 00:16:06.900 So I can see this happening where the journey driver, the Dodge driver, 00:16:07.173 --> 00:16:10.712 manages to get in front of the other guy and it's in a construction zone, which sometimes, 00:16:11.271 --> 00:16:14.742 might mean that you have a restricted lane, meaning that you're maybe down to 00:16:14.742 --> 00:16:18.458 one lane, you got nowhere else to go. Maybe that Dodge driver at that point, 00:16:19.182 --> 00:16:20.846 Puts his brakes on and now you 00:16:20.846 --> 00:16:24.134 can't go anywhere, right? You got traffic behind you. You can't back up. 00:16:24.465 --> 00:16:29.426 So like I can see where this could put a person in a position where it's like I am out of options. 00:16:29.426 --> 00:16:31.065 Yeah, can't go forward, can't go back. 00:16:31.617 --> 00:16:34.006 But there are still some options here. And I think that's where the biggest 00:16:34.006 --> 00:16:37.857 lessons to be learned for us as concealed carriers come from with this incident. 00:16:39.306 --> 00:16:43.614 And where we call into question some of the actions. Again, not trying to like 00:16:43.974 --> 00:16:49.820 be too hard on the guy here. And again, prosecution has found him to be innocent, okay? which is fine. 00:16:50.290 --> 00:16:58.260 But this is still a, hey, this guy may have gotten lucky with this particular prosecutor, right? 00:16:58.510 --> 00:17:02.068 In a different jurisdiction, this could play out very differently. 00:17:02.562 --> 00:17:06.660 Right? Yeah, and legal things aside, before this incident happened, 00:17:06.805 --> 00:17:09.685 there was one more Dodge Journey owner than there is now. 00:17:09.981 --> 00:17:12.846 Yeah, yeah, and that has a psychological cost. 00:17:12.846 --> 00:17:17.436 Yeah, like the man, like someone might have one, like there could be kids out 00:17:17.436 --> 00:17:18.556 there that don't have a dad now. 00:17:18.556 --> 00:17:22.084 Yep. Wife that doesn't have a husband, someone who doesn't have a son, doesn't have a brother, 00:17:23.006 --> 00:17:27.605 and who knows how many family members are impacted by the loss of this man, 00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:32.056 let alone our presumably innocent victim who now has to live with the fact that 00:17:32.056 --> 00:17:36.186 they just took someone's life over a road rage incident. 00:17:36.906 --> 00:17:39.686 And that bears a psychological and emotional cost. 00:17:40.292 --> 00:17:43.927 That's the crazy crap here. Yeah. Did you dodge a legal bullet? 00:17:44.229 --> 00:17:46.010 Probably. You probably did. 00:17:46.381 --> 00:17:51.462 But more importantly, you fired a bullet that took a life. Like, this is crazy. 00:17:51.636 --> 00:17:55.606 Yeah. Yep. So it comes down to, 00:17:56.186 --> 00:18:00.371 get out of the vehicle or not is how I see this. And I don't – I can't –, 00:18:01.697 --> 00:18:05.731 And we maybe don't have all the facts here, but why? Why get out of the vehicle? 00:18:06.557 --> 00:18:07.787 If the other guy doesn't have a weapon. 00:18:07.787 --> 00:18:08.607 Right, if he's not armed. 00:18:08.607 --> 00:18:12.220 Okay, we're going to make that assumption here. If he doesn't have a weapon, right, 00:18:13.257 --> 00:18:16.365 he doesn't have anything he's using to try to gain access to your vehicle, 00:18:16.685 --> 00:18:21.017 like what can he do to you while you're inside your vehicle with it's secured, 00:18:21.017 --> 00:18:24.614 doors locked, windows up, right? Like what's the worst he can do? 00:18:25.142 --> 00:18:25.369 Yeah. 00:18:25.607 --> 00:18:30.373 Right? Have you ever seen a guy able to punch out a vehicle window? I haven't. 00:18:31.397 --> 00:18:35.267 You don't know how hard it is to actually break automobile glass unless you 00:18:35.267 --> 00:18:37.247 have a very, very sharp pointy thing. 00:18:37.247 --> 00:18:40.130 I've seen it in the movies so many times. So Riley's clearly wrong. 00:18:41.797 --> 00:18:46.527 I mean, I'm remembering another vehicle road rage incident in Vegas where one 00:18:46.527 --> 00:18:48.727 man's kind of the innocent guy. The other guy's the aggressor. 00:18:49.162 --> 00:18:52.343 And he refuses to get out of his car when he's being attacked. 00:18:52.738 --> 00:18:57.077 And so the BG starts destroying his car. Sure, sure. He takes a crowbar, 00:18:57.517 --> 00:18:59.576 a tire iron or something, starts breaking headlights. 00:18:59.913 --> 00:19:03.987 You know and so then then the innocent guy gets out of his car and they do a 00:19:03.987 --> 00:19:07.460 little dance around the car it ultimately he's trying to get back into his car 00:19:07.732 --> 00:19:12.092 and when he's not able to he has to shoot the other guy so you know again like it's it's 00:19:13.299 --> 00:19:17.167 like what what would it take like how much has to happen for you to finally 00:19:17.167 --> 00:19:18.756 say i gotta get out of this car 00:19:19.453 --> 00:19:24.337 and the answer should be a lot it would take a lot to cause me to get out of 00:19:24.337 --> 00:19:28.647 this car like you'd have to take out a window that gave you access to one of 00:19:28.647 --> 00:19:30.726 the humans inside. That's what it would take for me. 00:19:31.132 --> 00:19:35.253 Like, yeah, if you had a crowbar and you bust out my driver's side window, 00:19:35.404 --> 00:19:38.497 and I'm like, oh, now you can hit me in the head with a crowbar. 00:19:39.077 --> 00:19:43.327 Okay, like now maybe I got to do something. And maybe staying in the car and 00:19:43.327 --> 00:19:45.657 shooting is the best option. Maybe exiting the car is better. 00:19:46.237 --> 00:19:47.957 That opens up all sorts of other things. 00:19:47.957 --> 00:19:51.437 The other thing here, and I've noticed this kind of, I don't know if trend's 00:19:51.437 --> 00:19:52.702 the right word. It's not, but... 00:19:53.561 --> 00:19:58.986 So we've seen over the years a number of instances, Jacob, where an unarmed 00:19:58.986 --> 00:20:02.889 man continues to advance towards an armed man. 00:20:03.726 --> 00:20:09.437 There's actually a highly publicized case here out of Aurora or Arvada or someplace, 00:20:10.706 --> 00:20:15.666 in our Denver metro area where an officer is now facing charges because he shot an unarmed man. 00:20:17.512 --> 00:20:22.284 Because that unarmed man continued to advance on that officer who already had his gun drawn. 00:20:22.841 --> 00:20:27.016 And so just because you have a gun drawn does not mean that the other person, 00:20:27.016 --> 00:20:33.016 the aggressor, is going to make a logical, reasonable choice of going, 00:20:33.016 --> 00:20:35.016 oh, hey, man, I don't want to mess with this. 00:20:35.016 --> 00:20:36.174 Yeah, that's a good point. 00:20:36.510 --> 00:20:36.946 You know what I mean? 00:20:37.097 --> 00:20:42.826 We kind of assume or presume or just think that, like, if I show this thing, I win now. 00:20:42.971 --> 00:20:45.549 Yep. Argument over, you're going to go away. Yep. 00:20:46.326 --> 00:20:50.566 It doesn't often work out. And so that's one of the other subtle lessons, 00:20:50.566 --> 00:20:54.018 I think, of this incident is that once the gun is introduced, 00:20:54.546 --> 00:20:58.308 especially in a situation where the other party is unarmed, 00:20:58.854 --> 00:21:05.106 if they call you a bluff, meaning they come at you still like as if you don't have a gun, 00:21:05.802 --> 00:21:09.134 it almost forces your hand because you have a gun out. 00:21:10.475 --> 00:21:13.746 What could happen? Well, they could take it from you, and then you really have a problem. 00:21:14.066 --> 00:21:17.917 And so you almost get in a position where you feel obligated to now use it, 00:21:18.422 --> 00:21:20.096 and you're using it against somebody who's not armed. 00:21:20.096 --> 00:21:23.368 It's a gamble is what it comes down to. You're betting some odds, 00:21:23.775 --> 00:21:27.339 and if you win the gamble, great. But if you lose the gamble, great. 00:21:28.112 --> 00:21:29.592 Man, high risk, high reward, man. 00:21:29.951 --> 00:21:34.237 Yeah. Well, I know we spent some time on that, but I think there's just a lot 00:21:34.237 --> 00:21:37.937 of interesting angles of that story there. 00:21:37.937 --> 00:21:41.067 And we want you to be thinking about this stuff because this is the sort of 00:21:41.067 --> 00:21:44.447 thing you want to be making decisions before you ever have to make the decisions. 00:21:44.447 --> 00:21:47.523 And that's what Jacob just did. He's like, you're going to have to do a lot. 00:21:48.537 --> 00:21:53.077 You're going to have to cross some major thresholds to get me to come out of 00:21:53.077 --> 00:21:56.747 my vehicle if I'm the innocent party in a road rage incident. 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:57.205 Yeah. 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:02.187 And that's a wise decision to make ahead of time. Okay. So you're not just reacting 00:22:02.187 --> 00:22:06.836 in the moment and you're reacting more emotionally as opposed to using your brain. 00:22:08.061 --> 00:22:12.597 Okay. At this point, we're going to take a quick break for our sponsor, CCW Safe. 00:22:13.077 --> 00:22:16.497 And I think that story is a perfect example for this too, because I'll tell 00:22:16.497 --> 00:22:21.331 you, hey, we don't have to make perfect decisions as self-defenders, 00:22:21.505 --> 00:22:25.917 but we do need to make reasonable ones as best as we can. 00:22:25.917 --> 00:22:27.707 Based on the information we have in the moment. 00:22:27.707 --> 00:22:31.477 Right, right. We can always look back at a situation. That means ourselves, 00:22:31.477 --> 00:22:37.547 if we were the first person involved or looking at somebody else's problem. 00:22:37.547 --> 00:22:42.273 But we can always look back and find ways to do better and to improve. 00:22:42.592 --> 00:22:46.592 So you don't have to make the perfect decisions, but you do need to make reasonably good ones. 00:22:47.143 --> 00:22:51.417 And even when you do make reasonably good decisions, it's still possible you 00:22:51.417 --> 00:22:56.057 find yourself faced with legal charges or a legal fight of some kind. 00:22:56.057 --> 00:23:00.747 Even if you're not facing charges, who knows? I mean, maybe the family of this 00:23:00.747 --> 00:23:04.337 guy that just got shot decides to sue this guy. Yeah, sure. 00:23:04.637 --> 00:23:08.727 And I don't know about the laws in, what was it, Indiana, okay, 00:23:08.727 --> 00:23:15.217 if there's any sort of preclusion that he's been ruled innocent in this case, no charges. 00:23:15.217 --> 00:23:16.847 The charges just haven't been filed. 00:23:16.847 --> 00:23:20.017 Yeah, so there's a possibility he could still see a civil lawsuit. 00:23:20.077 --> 00:23:21.730 Wrongful death suit, right? Yeah, sure. 00:23:22.049 --> 00:23:24.707 So anyway you want to have a good, 00:23:25.915 --> 00:23:29.811 I was going to say program, but program is the wrong word. You want to have 00:23:29.811 --> 00:23:33.581 good people that back you up, like the folks over at CCW Safe. 00:23:33.581 --> 00:23:36.479 And that's what they are. They are people that understand how this stuff works. 00:23:36.781 --> 00:23:40.301 They do their job very well, and they believe in backing their people, 00:23:40.301 --> 00:23:44.397 their members, with the best insurance, in my opinion, insurance. 00:23:44.780 --> 00:23:49.591 Okay, legal coverage in the industry. That's CCW Safe, ccwsafe.com. 00:23:49.591 --> 00:23:50.556 Anything else you want to add? 00:23:51.102 --> 00:23:56.576 The magic of that company and that product is their critical response team. 00:23:56.901 --> 00:24:03.234 As far as I know, they're the only company in that space that has a critical response team. 00:24:03.460 --> 00:24:05.666 Not someone who takes phone calls in the middle of the night and says, 00:24:05.956 --> 00:24:07.756 oh, yes, we will send money and lawyers. 00:24:08.162 --> 00:24:12.208 Like a critical response team that takes the call and says, let's mobilize, let's roll. 00:24:12.499 --> 00:24:17.659 And that critical response team is made up of former prosecutors and investigators 00:24:17.892 --> 00:24:22.007 who've been on the scenes of these events many times. 00:24:22.321 --> 00:24:25.460 And so that is the magic. When you said it's about the people, 00:24:25.913 --> 00:24:28.811 that is the magic. They just hit their 15-year anniversary, by the way. 00:24:28.811 --> 00:24:31.143 I saw they were celebrating 15 years. Yes. 00:24:31.497 --> 00:24:35.683 Congratulations, CCW Safe, on 15 years of being, in our opinion, 00:24:35.845 --> 00:24:37.093 the best company in the business. 00:24:37.598 --> 00:24:40.901 So we hope that you guys will consider joining CCW Safe today. 00:24:40.901 --> 00:24:44.881 If you haven't already, go to CCWSafe.com and learn more about their specific 00:24:44.881 --> 00:24:48.709 programs because you can find one that will fit your needs. I'm pretty confident. 00:24:49.139 --> 00:24:54.944 And just a reminder that Guardian Nation members save a discount as well off CCWSafe membership. 00:24:55.941 --> 00:25:00.028 So thank you, CCWSA, for your sponsorship of this podcast and of today's episode. 00:25:00.684 --> 00:25:01.792 Let's get to our next story, Jacob. 00:25:02.943 --> 00:25:06.683 Because I know we've got people that are waiting for us to talk about the In-N-Out 00:25:06.683 --> 00:25:10.332 thing. That's kind of a big one. But we're going to get through a couple of other good lessons. 00:25:11.663 --> 00:25:13.313 You're jumping to Rochester, New York. 00:25:13.313 --> 00:25:14.243 Rochester, New York. 00:25:14.243 --> 00:25:19.043 All right. It's a relatively brief story. There's not a lot here. 00:25:19.363 --> 00:25:22.243 I mean, but there's some context that matters. You're the homeowner. Yep. 00:25:22.718 --> 00:25:27.159 And your house has been broken into twice in the last couple of months, twice in June. 00:25:27.403 --> 00:25:31.304 Yeah. And so now fast forward, it's been a couple weeks, months, month. 00:25:31.890 --> 00:25:34.923 And you can wake up in the middle of the night because you hear someone trying 00:25:34.923 --> 00:25:35.698 to get through the back door. 00:25:36.348 --> 00:25:38.032 Yeah. It's like, here we go again. 00:25:38.641 --> 00:25:42.253 Yeah. That's exactly why I included this story in today's episode. 00:25:42.253 --> 00:25:47.363 It was that little detail where the guy, you know, the homeowner apparently 00:25:47.363 --> 00:25:54.413 tells investigators that, hey, my house has been burglarized. twice since June. 00:25:54.669 --> 00:25:59.063 So in less than two months. So basically he's averaging more than one break-in 00:25:59.063 --> 00:26:04.090 in burglary per month this summer, right? Yeah. 00:26:05.629 --> 00:26:08.450 And that's a problem. So I suspect... 00:26:09.368 --> 00:26:13.085 That probably put this guy a little bit more on edge, probably made sure that 00:26:13.085 --> 00:26:14.697 he was prepared a little bit more. 00:26:15.034 --> 00:26:19.701 So he's got his gun or he's carrying his gun or he's making sure it's loaded or whatever it is. 00:26:20.258 --> 00:26:24.860