WEBVTT 00:00:15.806 --> 00:00:16.878 And welcome to the Concealed Carry 00:00:16.878 --> 00:00:21.408 Podcast, part of the ConcealedCarry.com network, brought to you by HK. 00:00:22.488 --> 00:00:27.727 Today is actually Thursday, July 23rd, 2026, as of the live recording of this 00:00:27.727 --> 00:00:30.139 episode. And I am your host, Riley Bowman. 00:00:30.858 --> 00:00:35.297 And I'm joined today by a special guest whom we will introduce here momentarily. 00:00:35.297 --> 00:00:37.244 I'm really excited about this one, folks. 00:00:37.598 --> 00:00:42.437 I hope you'll stick around for the entirety of the episode because it's going 00:00:42.437 --> 00:00:43.693 to be a good episode. I know that. 00:00:44.617 --> 00:00:50.517 So today we are going to be sharing the story and interviewing firsthand Jarrell 00:00:50.517 --> 00:00:54.317 Kapel, who was a FedEx delivery driver in 00:00:54.917 --> 00:01:00.057 December of 2019 that had a defensive gun use, as we call them here at the Concealed 00:01:00.057 --> 00:01:02.413 Carry Podcast, a justified save. 00:01:02.906 --> 00:01:08.117 It's a compelling story with many lessons to be learned, and I know that you're 00:01:08.117 --> 00:01:14.435 going to really benefit from this one. So I look forward to bringing Jarrell on here in just a moment. 00:01:14.905 --> 00:01:19.886 As he described himself to me a moment ago, he is just a chill guy. 00:01:20.199 --> 00:01:23.090 And I appreciate that about him. He's got a good attitude. 00:01:23.578 --> 00:01:27.777 And I'll tell you, sometimes a chill attitude is the right one to have when 00:01:27.777 --> 00:01:30.561 we're dealing with high-stress situations. 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:33.371 And certainly to try to avoid those situations where possible. 00:01:33.794 --> 00:01:39.495 Unfortunately, that's not how it worked out for Jarrell on that fateful night in 2019. 00:01:40.232 --> 00:01:45.827 As he was robbed by an armed robber and actually got himself shot, 00:01:45.827 --> 00:01:47.198 unfortunately, as part of that. 00:01:47.901 --> 00:01:51.557 But he fought back, and he's here to tell his whole story. But before we get 00:01:51.557 --> 00:01:54.867 into that, we do have a couple episode sponsors today. Our first sponsor, 00:01:54.867 --> 00:01:58.226 which we'll introduce now, is HK, Heckler & Koch. 00:01:59.157 --> 00:02:04.197 Our friends over at HKUSA have been big supporters of the podcast for a long 00:02:04.197 --> 00:02:09.018 time now, and they are the title sponsor of this podcast and of today's episode. 00:02:09.407 --> 00:02:13.093 So thank you, HK, for your support of the Concealed Carry podcast. 00:02:13.610 --> 00:02:17.787 Folks, when you're dealing with difficult situations, particularly when your 00:02:17.787 --> 00:02:23.588 life is on the line, I'm a big believer in trusting only your life with the best equipment. 00:02:24.489 --> 00:02:31.484 And I know that carrying an HK pistol for my personal choice in a sidearm is 00:02:31.687 --> 00:02:36.778 a quality piece. It's something I am confident will not let me down when the moment counts. 00:02:37.103 --> 00:02:40.356 So I'd hope that you would consider for your next firearm, taking a look at 00:02:40.356 --> 00:02:45.866 HK today, go to hk-usa.com to see their full lineup of firearms. 00:02:45.866 --> 00:02:49.230 You can find them typically in just about any local gun dealer. 00:02:49.700 --> 00:02:52.963 And I do think it's good and wise to support your local dealers. 00:02:53.340 --> 00:02:58.638 So go to your local gun shop and ask them what they have on the shelves from HK today. 00:02:59.073 --> 00:03:03.636 The CC9 is a big hit. It's been a very popular pistol for them since it was released. 00:03:04.013 --> 00:03:07.826 And I'm actually carrying, I like carrying that one, but I'm actually carrying 00:03:07.826 --> 00:03:11.596 today the newer HK A1 series. 00:03:11.596 --> 00:03:20.246 It's the VP9A1K, the K model, which is a nice mid-sized compact gun and just a great performer. 00:03:20.246 --> 00:03:23.516 So there you go. HK, thank you for your support of the podcast. 00:03:23.516 --> 00:03:28.226 Again, you can learn more at hk-usa.com. 00:03:29.444 --> 00:03:35.353 Well, let's bring on our special guest today, Jarrell. There he is. 00:03:35.510 --> 00:03:36.648 Welcome, sir. How are you? 00:03:37.785 --> 00:03:38.964 I'm doing good. How about you? 00:03:39.655 --> 00:03:45.747 Fantastic. It's really good to have you on. And we thank you for your time today 00:03:45.747 --> 00:03:47.068 and your willingness to share your story. 00:03:48.087 --> 00:03:51.577 I know that sometimes these kinds of things can be difficult to tell, 00:03:51.577 --> 00:03:52.931 maybe even difficult to relive. 00:03:53.867 --> 00:03:58.447 Fortunately, this is crazy. It's been almost seven years. It'll be seven years 00:03:58.447 --> 00:04:03.857 ago in December of later this year. It'll be seven years since this thing happened 00:04:03.857 --> 00:04:07.211 to you, unfortunately, back in December 2019. 00:04:08.389 --> 00:04:16.447 Jarrell, you were employed as a FedEx delivery driver, contract guy, back at that point. 00:04:16.827 --> 00:04:21.377 And you're just doing your job, man, delivering packages and bringing everybody 00:04:21.377 --> 00:04:23.360 their holiday cheer, as they might say. 00:04:24.327 --> 00:04:27.569 So tell us a little bit about kind of yourselves, your background, 00:04:28.004 --> 00:04:33.107 and kind of, you know, how it was going in the days leading up to that fateful 00:04:33.107 --> 00:04:35.394 day for you and your kind of day-to-day job. 00:04:37.078 --> 00:04:42.781 All right thank you for having me um to share my story um so as i told you earlier 00:04:42.781 --> 00:04:46.961 you know i'm a pretty relaxed cool easy going guy um uh, 00:04:48.541 --> 00:04:54.501 up until that point what was it 2019 so i think i had been at fedex for about 00:04:54.501 --> 00:05:03.500 11 years at that point um wow so it was you know every day get up go deliver packages and, 00:05:04.405 --> 00:05:10.031 um matter of fact the route i was on i had been doing for maybe about a year 00:05:10.031 --> 00:05:16.805 i spent most of my um fedex career in west philadelphia so i was like pretty, 00:05:17.583 --> 00:05:21.135 pretty known um in those parts so uh, 00:05:22.488 --> 00:05:26.516 it's only been about a year for the route that i was on, 00:05:27.474 --> 00:05:32.361 um but crazy enough it's the neighborhood that i live in so that's i usually 00:05:32.361 --> 00:05:36.401 just go home i mean go to work come home so it was like i was actually learning 00:05:36.401 --> 00:05:40.958 a lot about my neighborhood too at the same time while delivering that well um, 00:05:42.490 --> 00:05:43.121 let me see uh. 00:05:44.963 --> 00:05:53.101 I think leading up to that day a week before i had delivered a tv Once again, 00:05:53.101 --> 00:05:54.948 we were talking about the Christmas season, right? 00:05:55.349 --> 00:05:59.267 Yeah. So it was super busy. 00:06:00.161 --> 00:06:06.442 I had a friend. They would allow us sometimes... FedEx would actually employ helpers. 00:06:07.063 --> 00:06:11.931 Or if you had somebody that can help you, you have to bring them. 00:06:11.931 --> 00:06:12.671 They would approve them. 00:06:13.298 --> 00:06:16.921 I had help the week before. Me and my friend, we delivered a TV. 00:06:18.063 --> 00:06:20.339 And about maybe... 00:06:21.849 --> 00:06:26.910 45 minutes later, somebody stole that TV. And the only reason I knew was because 00:06:26.910 --> 00:06:34.340 my boss sent me a text that night that somebody caught it on the ring camera. 00:06:34.933 --> 00:06:41.970 And it was a little bit upsetting because they thought it was me and my friend 00:06:41.970 --> 00:06:45.753 because that day I had an orange FedEx hoodie on. 00:06:46.386 --> 00:06:48.963 So you see me deliver the package, me and my friend. 00:06:49.741 --> 00:06:55.889 Then we pull off and then about a 45 minutes later you see two guys pull up 00:06:56.301 --> 00:07:00.530 in the car and they hop out run up take the tv, 00:07:01.339 --> 00:07:07.200 but as the guy was running i think his shirt lifted up so you see like you see 00:07:07.200 --> 00:07:11.092 an orange and i'm like that must have been his underwear you know how the guys dress, 00:07:11.783 --> 00:07:16.618 so they thought it was i guess me and him and i'm like in my world i'm thinking, 00:07:17.710 --> 00:07:22.790 i'm not risking my job to steal it still tv it's not worth it so that happened you've been. 00:07:22.790 --> 00:07:25.088 Working there for you've been working there for 11 years 00:07:25.564 --> 00:07:26.446 So i mean that's. 00:07:26.934 --> 00:07:29.330 That's practically a career at that point like yeah 00:07:31.938 --> 00:07:32.999 exactly yeah so sorry continue 00:07:33.753 --> 00:07:38.734 No you're fine um so at that point it put me on alert that, 00:07:39.552 --> 00:07:44.990 people were actually following you was over there you would follow the truck 00:07:44.990 --> 00:07:49.570 or because in my opinion the way i've seen the video i'm like how did he know 00:07:49.570 --> 00:07:51.296 that tv was there is either they, 00:07:52.410 --> 00:07:58.050 seen me deliver it or maybe they drove down the street spotted it and came back 00:07:58.050 --> 00:08:05.410 around but the video that was posted only showed when they pulled up and stole the tv so i was, 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:11.310 on some kind of alert that people were following us and then like i said prior 00:08:11.310 --> 00:08:16.588 to i was I was in West Philly and by me being there for so long, 00:08:16.995 --> 00:08:20.470 you know, I was cool with a lot of the police officers in that area and, 00:08:22.068 --> 00:08:24.175 one cop in particular told me that, 00:08:25.580 --> 00:08:30.746 I think Philly actually had police, I don't know if they were undercover or 00:08:30.746 --> 00:08:37.366 not, they would follow FedEx trucks because they was aware of people stealing packages. 00:08:37.366 --> 00:08:41.849 So they was already trying to get on top of it. Yeah. 00:08:42.813 --> 00:08:46.986 Yeah. Yeah, you definitely hear those stories. I mean, we see them every year. 00:08:47.786 --> 00:08:55.076 I live here in the suburbs of West Denver Metro and a good-sized city like Philly. 00:08:55.076 --> 00:08:59.586 And every year you see the stories, you see people, you know, 00:08:59.586 --> 00:09:02.756 share their videos as well, you know, to the news stations and stuff. 00:09:02.756 --> 00:09:06.864 I mean, packages getting stolen by these so-called porch pirates and whatnot. 00:09:09.066 --> 00:09:14.393 And I would imagine that, and this was 2019, which, you know, 00:09:14.589 --> 00:09:17.966 that's still relatively recent. 00:09:17.966 --> 00:09:21.278 But what's happened since then is, you know, we went through the whole COVID 00:09:21.602 --> 00:09:27.386 episode and people started shopping and buying things online even more and, 00:09:28.115 --> 00:09:30.246 you know, expecting deliveries and whatnot. 00:09:30.246 --> 00:09:36.299 And so I would imagine this kind of thing has even increased from what it was in 2019. 00:09:37.286 --> 00:09:42.441 I would imagine that if I was a route manager or owner or whatever, 00:09:43.246 --> 00:09:45.706 I'd probably be talking to my employees, 00:09:47.456 --> 00:09:50.666 coaching them, advising them, letting them know, like, hey, make sure you're 00:09:51.433 --> 00:09:55.766 keeping your head on a swivel and keeping an eye out on things because you're a target potentially. 00:09:56.126 --> 00:09:59.078 And unfortunately, that's what happened to you here. 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:04.529 But before we get to that moment, tell us a little bit about the actual day this happened, Don. 00:10:04.894 --> 00:10:08.900 Even right down to like what was the weather like this is December in Philadelphia 00:10:09.265 --> 00:10:13.085 was it was a nice day was it a cold day was it snow was it dry like 00:10:14.246 --> 00:10:17.536 and then and what time did you typically start work and and then kind of lead 00:10:17.536 --> 00:10:21.735 us up to I think the incident happened about 7 p.m. 00:10:22.228 --> 00:10:24.892 That day so kind of tell us what that day was like. 00:10:26.169 --> 00:10:30.045 So that day, if I remember correctly, I know it was definitely was sunny. 00:10:31.119 --> 00:10:35.831 It wasn't too cold. You know, the past, I would probably say in the past decade, 00:10:35.831 --> 00:10:39.341 we've been having these on the East Coast. We've been having these mixed winters 00:10:39.341 --> 00:10:45.788 where you can come go outside one day in the wintertime and it's 70 degrees. So it wasn't too cold. 00:10:48.696 --> 00:10:53.828 The day that it happened, the helper told you, couldn't make it in that day. So I was by myself. 00:10:54.792 --> 00:11:01.791 And so I was on alert, just first stop, second stop, making sure I was checking 00:11:01.791 --> 00:11:06.733 my surroundings, trying to make sure nobody was following you. 00:11:07.203 --> 00:11:12.841 So typically, you know, with FedEx, once your day starts, you try to get into 00:11:12.841 --> 00:11:15.391 a groove, stop, stop, stop. 00:11:17.402 --> 00:11:22.255 And so I was working my way through holiday season. 00:11:23.532 --> 00:11:27.711 If you've ever driven behind a fedex or even a ups truck and they open that 00:11:27.711 --> 00:11:31.728 back door you notice that truck is loaded it is loaded up so, 00:11:32.453 --> 00:11:37.611 it is it's a lot sometimes especially in the morning hours to try to clear your 00:11:37.611 --> 00:11:42.664 truck out because the more room you have to move the more efficient you can be so, 00:11:43.477 --> 00:11:49.341 i was definitely uh you know working trying to clear my truck um like i said 00:11:49.341 --> 00:11:52.649 it was sunny most of the day so it was cool um, 00:11:54.164 --> 00:12:01.054 and a lot of times for me i would if i got lunch i would stop get my lunch but, 00:12:01.757 --> 00:12:06.541 i'm working while eating my lunch so i might my food might last me four or five 00:12:06.541 --> 00:12:11.951 hours to finish it because it's just take a bite here work work work take a bite there um. 00:12:14.069 --> 00:12:20.014 And you kind of feel the pressure like around 4 o'clock, 5 o'clock. 00:12:20.832 --> 00:12:24.128 Because now it's like, okay, cool. I want to be off the road by 8 o'clock. 00:12:25.432 --> 00:12:32.962 And depending on where you're at on the road, you start to kind of zone out. 00:12:32.962 --> 00:12:42.312 So getting close to that time, it's tunnel vision. Like you're rapidly stop, stop, stop, stop. 00:12:42.652 --> 00:12:44.782 Yeah. sometimes at that point. 00:12:45.432 --> 00:12:49.072 How many stops would you have in a typical day during that season 00:12:51.348 --> 00:12:58.302 Depending on your route 150 more than 150 would probably be a good day during 00:12:58.302 --> 00:13:05.924 that time you could probably average between 180 200 plus stops a day, 00:13:07.654 --> 00:13:08.501 230. 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:12.629 So to your point you're getting later in the day I mean, you've, 00:13:13.082 --> 00:13:17.128 you've made so many stops that like you, you use the word tunnel vision, 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:22.642 probably not literally tunnel vision, but you're just so like in the routine of stop, stop. 00:13:22.642 --> 00:13:26.605 And probably before long, they all start to look the same. I would guess. 00:13:27.029 --> 00:13:32.630 It does get to be like that. And then you're like, plus remember with that time, 00:13:32.973 --> 00:13:39.701 that time of the year, you'll typically have like maybe, uh, I would say between. 00:13:41.530 --> 00:13:48.778 Four five stops on each street that you stop on so they they go by faster sometimes 00:13:48.778 --> 00:13:50.521 but it's still a lot of stops to um, 00:13:51.619 --> 00:13:57.878 to get to um yeah and i think around yeah so around that time i was just really 00:13:57.878 --> 00:14:03.060 moving um the truck is pretty much i can see my shelves so i can, 00:14:04.157 --> 00:14:07.048 it's times you'll stop for like maybe five minutes and say you know what i'm 00:14:07.048 --> 00:14:13.707 lining up my next 15 20 stops so that when i get there is just grab and go, grab and go. 00:14:14.113 --> 00:14:18.678 Like I say, we're working your way through the day at that point. Yeah. 00:14:20.735 --> 00:14:26.645 So on that particular day, it's getting late in the day or maybe an hour or so from being done. 00:14:27.358 --> 00:14:30.038 Probably looking forward to that. It's probably been a long day already. 00:14:30.038 --> 00:14:34.338 I mean, how long you worked at that point? Probably 12, 13 hours? 12 hours? 00:14:34.658 --> 00:14:38.038 I think at that point, because usually when we get in in the morning, 00:14:38.969 --> 00:14:46.538 even though we have loaders, but everything is not the way the driver would like it. 00:14:46.538 --> 00:14:51.548 So most of us, we would probably spend about an hour, hour and a half sometimes 00:14:51.548 --> 00:14:56.438 in the morning, resorting our truck so that we can work efficiently. 00:14:56.438 --> 00:14:59.785 So probably would have been at work by eight o'clock. 00:15:00.290 --> 00:15:05.258 If not leaving out nine 30, 10 o'clock, which would be late for us. 00:15:05.258 --> 00:15:10.138 We would like to leave out like eight o'clock, but said we try to set ourselves 00:15:10.138 --> 00:15:12.034 up. So we take the time to sort the truck out. 00:15:12.847 --> 00:15:16.550 So, yeah, pretty much that was going on maybe –, 00:15:18.894 --> 00:15:20.189 10 hours of work at that point. 00:15:20.943 --> 00:15:24.458 Okay. Yeah. Well, and you still got, you still got ways to go. 00:15:24.458 --> 00:15:31.058 So it's been a long day and you're, you're, you're working hard. So you had a delivery. 00:15:31.918 --> 00:15:37.718 Was this a TV that you were delivering when you got stopped in the robbery or 00:15:38.418 --> 00:15:40.117 do you even know what you were delivering? Probably not. 00:15:40.727 --> 00:15:43.809 No, I don't. This wasn't a TV. This was a small package. 00:15:44.478 --> 00:15:44.883 Gotcha. 00:15:45.783 --> 00:15:49.808 Another one of those packages, I think I said it was already lined up on my 00:15:49.808 --> 00:15:57.143 shelf, stopped next to the house, ran to the door. I think I rung the bell, 00:15:59.732 --> 00:16:05.410 and I was making my way back to the truck. And just to go back to it, I get that point. 00:16:06.994 --> 00:16:10.237 Time from the time from the truck to the door might have been 30 seconds i'm 00:16:10.237 --> 00:16:13.269 moving like i'm moving this time right yeah, 00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:18.917 you're on residential blocks you can exit your truck run to the door leave the 00:16:18.917 --> 00:16:23.665 package at the door and then um come back to the truck in less than a minute 00:16:23.996 --> 00:16:26.382 plus around that time from what, 00:16:27.072 --> 00:16:34.347 i recall and what i remember with protocol we had to leaving the package where 00:16:34.347 --> 00:16:36.317 it's visible was a no-no. 00:16:36.317 --> 00:16:40.907 I don't know if it's the same thing I did in Denver now, but as I ride around 00:16:40.907 --> 00:16:43.512 Philadelphia, they leave packages on people's porch. 00:16:44.237 --> 00:16:49.874 Sometimes, even with some of the other carriers, they'll put it right there on the steps. 00:16:49.985 --> 00:16:55.767 I'm like, the porch is just a further, you know, put it on the porch where nobody can see it. 00:16:55.817 --> 00:17:01.635 There's a lot of porch pirates, but I said, I ran that package, rung the doorbell. 00:17:01.752 --> 00:17:04.817 I didn't get an answer, so I think I put it in between the screen door, 00:17:05.438 --> 00:17:11.407 and I was making my way out of the person's front yard, and then that's when 00:17:11.407 --> 00:17:14.395 the whole situation started. That's where it starts at. 00:17:14.887 --> 00:17:20.227 Wow. Okay. Now, I'm going to put the pause button on there for just a little 00:17:20.227 --> 00:17:23.733 bit because I got a question before we get to that critical moment. 00:17:26.531 --> 00:17:29.717 So you're obviously carrying a gun. Yes. 00:17:31.198 --> 00:17:37.583 What made you decide to carry Concealed as a FedEx driver? 00:17:40.580 --> 00:17:45.637 I always have to give credit to one of my customers. A few years prior, 00:17:47.202 --> 00:17:49.257 he was a technology guy. Super cool. 00:17:50.897 --> 00:17:53.827 Sometimes I stop, we'll have like five, ten minute conversations throughout 00:17:53.827 --> 00:17:55.817 my day. So I remember at one point. 00:17:57.800 --> 00:18:02.936 I think we got into the topic of firearms, or I may have noticed that he was carrying. 00:18:03.389 --> 00:18:11.341 So we were talking, and it was a key statement I asked him. I said, 00:18:12.195 --> 00:18:17.516 do you think you could live with knowing that you had to use your firearm? 00:18:18.195 --> 00:18:23.559 His response was, the key word in my statement was live. Cannot live with it. 00:18:24.290 --> 00:18:28.673 And I think he told me he was actually robbed before and he was shot. He survived. 00:18:29.526 --> 00:18:36.318 So from that moment, it kind of changed my mentality on firearms. 00:18:37.891 --> 00:18:40.753 Let me not say it changed. At that point, I already owned a gun, 00:18:41.235 --> 00:18:44.689 but I didn't carry it. So it was in-house. 00:18:45.403 --> 00:18:50.700 But that did change my mind. And I think I do accredit him for possibly me still 00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:55.086 being here because if it wasn't for that conversation, probably wouldn't have been carrying but, 00:18:55.980 --> 00:19:02.380 it was very eye-opening and i just decided to uh start carrying you know it's a lot of. 00:19:05.569 --> 00:19:10.690 Nuts out here like people are robbing for anything um they run in the truck 00:19:10.690 --> 00:19:16.696 we have had situations um in the past with drivers being, 00:19:18.402 --> 00:19:22.612 tied up in a truck, truck stolen. Um, 00:19:23.690 --> 00:19:29.732 if you remember around that time, maybe like a couple of weeks before my incident 00:19:29.732 --> 00:19:36.659 happened or maybe a week, there was a UPS driver in Florida that got caught up in a robbery. 00:19:37.471 --> 00:19:44.922 The guys I think was robbing a bank of a jewelry store and they forced him on his truck to get away. 00:19:44.922 --> 00:19:48.882 And he ended up getting killed in the shootout between law enforcement and those 00:19:48.882 --> 00:19:52.948 drivers so that further solidified me carrying my firearm. 00:19:56.291 --> 00:20:00.569 So that happened just shortly before your own incident what did that 00:20:01.191 --> 00:20:06.052 cause you to change anything because that happened to that ups driver like in a 00:20:06.532 --> 00:20:11.712 you know like did you start actually carrying every day where maybe you didn't 00:20:11.712 --> 00:20:16.112 before or anything like that or or did it just sort of solidify that, 00:20:16.512 --> 00:20:20.595 oh, I'm just going to make sure I'm really, you know, paying attention and dialed in? 00:20:21.710 --> 00:20:26.092 I think it made me a little bit more dialed in. I was already carrying for the 00:20:26.092 --> 00:20:30.319 most part almost every day, but it's some days because what it is, 00:20:31.834 --> 00:20:37.532 one of the main things that came up are, are we allowed to carry as delivery drivers? 00:20:37.532 --> 00:20:41.832 And I'm like, according to the policy of FedEx, I would say no, 00:20:41.832 --> 00:20:44.532 but in my eyes, I didn't work for FedEx. 00:20:45.112 --> 00:20:50.892 I worked through a contractor. So this truck that I'm on doesn't belong to FedEx. 00:20:51.606 --> 00:20:58.922 And I would never walk into the building with my firearm. 00:20:58.922 --> 00:21:04.142 So sometimes when you leave out and have to go to my car to get my firearm to 00:21:04.142 --> 00:21:06.942 then start my day, it was some days you didn't feel like doing it. 00:21:08.276 --> 00:21:13.141 But that further made me say, okay, every day. because you just never know when something can happen. 00:21:16.114 --> 00:21:20.147 Yeah, I'm glad you explained that, by the way, because I don't have a personal 00:21:20.147 --> 00:21:25.536 experience other than a family member owned a couple of FedEx routes. 00:21:25.994 --> 00:21:30.058 And so I learned a little bit more about how that works over the years. 00:21:30.511 --> 00:21:36.647 And like you just explained, those FedEx ground delivery trucks you see running 00:21:36.647 --> 00:21:42.742 around, those are routes that are owned by a private individual or a company. 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:48.117 And uh and that includes all the equipment the trucks and everything uh 00:21:49.237 --> 00:21:54.990 those are those are part of that contractor's uh business and so if you were to go to my uh 00:21:56.077 --> 00:22:02.560 family member's house when they they they no longer do that anymore they sold those routes off but uh 00:22:03.315 --> 00:22:08.217 they still have like old remnants of fedex vans and trucks sitting on their 00:22:08.217 --> 00:22:11.717 property because you know they had some you They had a number of trucks, 00:22:11.717 --> 00:22:14.727 and there was always something needing to be fixed and repaired. 00:22:14.727 --> 00:22:17.877 And so anyway, yeah, 00:22:20.517 --> 00:22:25.255 I hear what you're saying as far as, hey, I don't actually work technically for FedEx. 00:22:25.499 --> 00:22:30.445 So like the route owner or the business that you actually were contracted with, 00:22:30.770 --> 00:22:35.667 they had never addressed a policy with you prior to that as far as no guns, 00:22:35.667 --> 00:22:37.666 no firearms, no carrying, that kind of stuff? 00:22:38.305 --> 00:22:40.977 Yeah, not that I can recall. I just took it into my mind like, 00:22:40.977 --> 00:22:44.627 hey, this is not FedEx's property. 00:22:44.627 --> 00:22:50.768 Second of all is, you know, when you really think it's like, 00:22:51.325 --> 00:22:53.777 I'm responsible for making it home to my family. 00:22:53.777 --> 00:23:00.033 So even if it meant bending the rules in this way, I got to get home because 00:23:00.393 --> 00:23:03.337 you might get fired. But if you're still alive, then you're still here for your 00:23:03.337 --> 00:23:05.587 family. You can move past it. You can move on. 00:23:06.696 --> 00:23:07.764 Yeah, you can get another job. 00:23:08.147 --> 00:23:08.466 Yes. 00:23:09.976 --> 00:23:14.921 Yeah, you can't get another life. I hear you. So you made the decision that, 00:23:15.107 --> 00:23:16.912 hey, this is the right choice for me. 00:23:18.041 --> 00:23:22.921 I'm in a relatively high-risk profession that could be targeted. 00:23:23.054 --> 00:23:27.801 As you pointed out, there are already known instances of other drivers, 00:23:27.801 --> 00:23:33.143 including for other companies, that were targets or had become victims of crimes. 00:23:33.550 --> 00:23:37.201 So you made the decision for you and for your family. you were going to carry 00:23:37.613 --> 00:23:44.341 and so you were carrying on that fateful day as well yes so going back 00:23:44.962 --> 00:23:49.941 you're on that and i think this happened like on unreal avenue i think was where 00:23:49.941 --> 00:23:54.191 this took place so you're at this home you're dropping off this package you 00:23:54.191 --> 00:23:58.325 slip in in between the screen door and the and the door 00:23:58.888 --> 00:24:00.491 and you're starting back towards 00:24:00.491 --> 00:24:04.698 your truck making your way through their yard and then what happens 00:24:05.534 --> 00:24:07.281 As I'm as I'm walking out, 00:24:09.261 --> 00:24:11.408 suspect is walking in. 00:24:14.328 --> 00:24:19.919 And so they were coming like into into this like a did they have like a little gate or something 00:24:20.226 --> 00:24:25.857 It was yeah it was a little gate there um it's not a very long yard it was short 00:24:25.857 --> 00:24:29.867 so i was walking out i seen him walking towards me and i still didn't think 00:24:29.867 --> 00:24:34.460 nothing of it his first words was a my man, 00:24:35.296 --> 00:24:37.887 and in the time that i've worked at fedex, 00:24:38.802 --> 00:24:42.637 i've heard that statement a million times and usually what follows that statement 00:24:42.637 --> 00:24:50.430 is do you have a package for so-and-so or for this address so i didn't think nothing of it at all just, 00:24:51.411 --> 00:24:52.845 hey my man i'm like what's going on um, 00:24:53.994 --> 00:24:59.177 the very next thing is i see a gun being pulled out on me and the slob being 00:24:59.177 --> 00:25:03.247 racked back and the next statement is give me everything you got, 00:25:05.161 --> 00:25:09.187 and that's where like I feel like it turns, 00:25:11.471 --> 00:25:15.267 I have to give Hollywood some credit sometimes to the way they depict certain 00:25:15.267 --> 00:25:20.672 things in movies it kind of it starts to spiral like, 00:25:22.658 --> 00:25:30.407 I do I tell people I do recall that feeling of your entire life just flashing 00:25:30.407 --> 00:25:31.772 before your eyes in that second. 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.207 Like so many things ran through my mind. 00:25:39.097 --> 00:25:43.347 First thing I did was, first of all, you're presented with a firearm. 00:25:43.347 --> 00:25:46.801 And let me go back just a little bit because... 00:25:49.877 --> 00:26:00.244 Along with carrying, I watched tons of videos on YouTube on self-defense, the legality part of it. 00:26:00.958 --> 00:26:03.257 I watched a lot of training videos. 00:26:05.491 --> 00:26:08.829 What else had I done at that point? I used to go to the range. 00:26:09.741 --> 00:26:10.060 Okay. 00:26:10.455 --> 00:26:10.832 Go ahead. 00:26:12.765 --> 00:26:15.377 Had you been through any formal training courses? 00:26:16.161 --> 00:26:18.512 I didn't take any courses at that point, but, 00:26:21.438 --> 00:26:26.680 I would watch my videos, go to the range, practice. 00:26:27.504 --> 00:26:32.635 I think the only kind of training you could say I had was at one range where 00:26:32.635 --> 00:26:37.744 they let you do a couple reps so they can certify you to draw from your holster. 00:26:39.065 --> 00:26:42.315 But at that point, that was it. I used to just watch a lot of training videos 00:26:42.315 --> 00:26:45.845 and, you know, take into account what's going on. 00:26:47.676 --> 00:26:53.925 One of the key things I forgot who the YouTube personality was, 00:26:53.925 --> 00:26:55.507 but it was one key video that, 00:26:56.794 --> 00:27:02.759 Came into play this night that I remember, and it was along the lines of knowing 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:06.407 when to draw and when not to draw. 00:27:06.743 --> 00:27:12.609 And I think he had used a scenario in which a police officer had tried to draw 00:27:12.609 --> 00:27:16.599 a gun on the suspect, and the suspect shot first, killed the cop. 00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:23.169 And there was another situation where it was regular civilians and the civilian, 00:27:23.169 --> 00:27:27.253 I think, was getting robbed. And he waited till the guy just turned his head for a slight second. 00:27:28.088 --> 00:27:33.098 And that was his opportunity to get in to the fight in his terminology. 00:27:33.655 --> 00:27:40.354 Right. Kind of sounds similar to my friend John Correa at Active Self-Protection. 00:27:40.662 --> 00:27:41.239 I think it was. 00:27:42.642 --> 00:27:42.909 Yeah? 00:27:43.263 --> 00:27:45.022 I think it was. It was two videos he showed. 00:27:47.402 --> 00:27:51.259 Yeah yeah he's real big about talking about uh waiting for your turn you know if uh 00:27:52.999 --> 00:27:58.650 if you are faced with a deadly threat particularly a gun that's already drawn on you uh 00:27:59.439 --> 00:28:03.909 you're gonna have a hard time beating them on the draws they've already got 00:28:03.909 --> 00:28:09.117 their gun out but uh you gotta wait for your turn and whether that's a distraction or 00:28:10.324 --> 00:28:14.069 uh you know them just turning their head away for a moment or whatever you know 00:28:14.069 --> 00:28:17.339 you got to look for those opportunities that say okay now it's my turn now i 00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:21.749 now i've got the opportunity to do something here so that i'm really glad you 00:28:21.749 --> 00:28:23.438 you mentioned that that you'd uh 00:28:24.407 --> 00:28:27.989 watch some content like that so you've you felt like that was uh 00:28:29.080 --> 00:28:32.406 particularly meaningful for you just did that in your mind 00:28:32.912 --> 00:28:39.539 It stood out a lot of the stuff that i had seen to that point actually played 00:28:39.539 --> 00:28:41.613 out. And as I tell the story, like, 00:28:43.715 --> 00:28:50.396 I have to sometimes pause because a lot of this, it really came to me. 00:28:50.837 --> 00:28:54.881 And like you mentioned too, in the beginning with me having a calm personality, 00:28:57.959 --> 00:29:03.619 my mind is always running. So it forced me to think through this entire event. 00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:08.199 And mind you, it took a while for me to unpack it throughout the years and realize, 00:29:08.199 --> 00:29:11.559 oh, wow, I didn't even realize this when this happened. 00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:19.820 But everything kind of came back to me in that moment. And that throughout the whole event. 00:29:21.614 --> 00:29:27.280 Yeah. Yeah. So you're leaving this property, this home. 00:29:28.379 --> 00:29:31.546 They're coming through the gate or whatever, or they're near there. 00:29:33.230 --> 00:29:39.308 It sounds like it just happens real fast. Like you said, the guy's just like, hey, my man. 00:29:39.632 --> 00:29:44.862 And then next thing you know he's just drawing his gun you said you racked the slide 00:29:46.052 --> 00:29:51.479 so uh and then he's like give me everything you got yeah boom like this is all 00:29:51.479 --> 00:29:54.649 happens probably in what two seconds maybe 00:29:54.817 --> 00:29:59.002 About yeah probably two seconds because when in that in those moments is like, 00:30:00.151 --> 00:30:06.899 is the conflict in your mind processing is this real time because a lot of it 00:30:06.899 --> 00:30:08.157 does feel like it's slow motion. 00:30:08.860 --> 00:30:13.230 A lot of it feels like it's in slow motion, but it's probably definitely a few seconds. 00:30:13.752 --> 00:30:22.389 And going on seven years, and I will probably have to go back because I do want 00:30:22.389 --> 00:30:25.803 to attain the 911 call that I've made, 00:30:28.381 --> 00:30:32.283 I'm still trying to figure out how long did the whole event last. 00:30:33.321 --> 00:30:37.705 I knew it wasn't five minutes, but in my mind, it feels like five minutes or more. 00:30:38.204 --> 00:30:45.094 But it probably might have been all of a minute or two, I feel like, in actuality. 00:30:46.708 --> 00:30:53.041 Sorry and you're talking you know from that initial contact with him to the 00:30:53.041 --> 00:30:55.252 the actual incident the shooting uh 00:30:56.616 --> 00:31:00.691 him running off you i think you also got in your and we'll talk we'll break 00:31:00.691 --> 00:31:04.221 this all down but i think you also go back in your truck and drove off some 00:31:04.221 --> 00:31:08.968 distance right and then i imagine that at that point started calling 911 yes 00:31:10.136 --> 00:31:13.521 yeah yeah so you're that's what you mean like how long this all took you're, 00:31:13.521 --> 00:31:18.521 you're talking about kind of that whole timeframe of initial contact to making 00:31:18.521 --> 00:31:20.475 your own escape and that, that call. 00:31:20.742 --> 00:31:21.107 Yes. 00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:26.381 Okay, cool. Cool. So what happens next? 00:31:26.381 --> 00:31:31.631 I mean, you're standing there, you're looking at a gun and see point in this, 00:31:31.631 --> 00:31:34.970 you know, like right up in your face or like, 00:31:35.641 --> 00:31:41.171 is he just keeping it down close, close to his body like you know how how menacing 00:31:41.171 --> 00:31:44.240 was him as a threat i'm just curious 00:31:44.443 --> 00:31:48.261 From what i remember i think it was pointed closer to his he kept it down towards 00:31:48.261 --> 00:31:54.559 towards his body um but it was still pointed at me yeah it definitely was close to his body because, 00:31:55.639 --> 00:31:59.888 um i had it felt like, 00:32:01.792 --> 00:32:07.866 The gun was, I think he had an all-gray sweatsuit on. So the gun being close 00:32:07.866 --> 00:32:11.446 to his body and then with everything going through my mind, I thought the gun 00:32:11.446 --> 00:32:15.631 was completely all silver, all nickel, but it wasn't. 00:32:15.974 --> 00:32:18.566 So it was close to him. It wasn't pointed directly in my face. 00:32:18.566 --> 00:32:26.476 Mm-hmm. And then what did you do next? I mean, so he just told you to hand him 00:32:26.476 --> 00:32:28.809 everything you got. What did you do? 00:32:30.579 --> 00:32:35.135 That's when I got stupid. When I say stupid, I mean like scared stupid. 00:32:35.135 --> 00:32:37.441 Like, you know, it runs through your mind. 00:32:38.184 --> 00:32:42.465 Give me everything you got. So the first thing, and I laugh because I literally 00:32:42.465 --> 00:32:50.733 in my mind, in my mind, I literally went to my pockets. I think I pulled out my keys. 00:32:51.725 --> 00:32:56.045 And my car keys was in my left pocket. I don't know why I handed him my car 00:32:56.045 --> 00:32:57.304 keys. My car keys is at the job. 00:32:57.983 --> 00:33:00.996 So I handed him the car keys. I'm going through the pockets. 00:33:02.761 --> 00:33:08.115 I get to my wallet. And when I went for my wallet, which I used to carry in 00:33:08.115 --> 00:33:15.793 my back pocket, I was carrying at a four o'clock position. So my hand brushed against my gun. 00:33:16.437 --> 00:33:20.265 Once again, wait your turn. As a gun pointed at me, in my mind, 00:33:20.265 --> 00:33:25.876 it was like, can't do nothing about this right now. Just get to the wallet. 00:33:26.846 --> 00:33:30.715 And here's where I said I got scared stupid. 00:33:30.715 --> 00:33:35.298 I went into my wallet and literally took out the money that was in the wallet, 00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:42.461